California engine, dissapointed?

The M3 is based on the coupe, but other than having a fantastic engine (not saying its beter than California) the car is not so great. IMHO

 

I know people who'd buy a FIAT-drawn Maserati re-badged as a Ferrari care nothing about the engine.

 

I agree with you about the high inflation of Ferrari's. The 360 cost $120,000 in 1999. The F430 now costs $200,000. Are we in a bubble?

If we do go into a severe protracted world wide recession, then demand will soften for exotics.

But among exotics, Ferrari has had the unique status of being regarded by many as the ultimate sports car. So other marrques such as Porsche and Aston Martin may feel the pain more.

Even in the worst of financial times, there probably are 8-10 thousand buyers of these cars a year. At last count there was close to 1000 billionaires and close to a million high net worth individuals who can afford a 200K car.

This is the market segment that Ferrari targets. Luca Di Montezemolo once commented to another collegue upon seeing a regular guy driving a 360,"how did he buy our car?"

He was confused at how a "normal guy", a free lance car photographer, was driving a Ferrari.

I personally don't think that Ferrari owners need to be special to own one. They just need to be crazy enough to spend 200K to buy one!


I am not trying to say wether this is right or wrong

 

Nope: Bushworld.

The Dollar was €1.07 on Inauguration Day 2000, €0.65 a week ago.
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Great point! I wonder how the car's price in Euro's has risen over this time period. I would bet that the percentage increase is much smaller.

 

Let's compare the new M5 BMW with the California.

0-62mph M5=4.5sec vs California under 4.0 sec
Fuel economy M5=17 mpg highway vs California= 21.4 mpg highway
Engine capacity M5= 5.0 l. V10 vs California= 4.3l. V8

The California still comes out ahead.

 

Sounds like it does a fine job but sure I'd like to see it be a bit more impressive (kinda like the whole car) but I am slowly warming up to this little guy especially if they price it accordingly (but still keep production levels low)

 

Vassalo, he did say that. I read it a few years ago, I'm not sure where.

LDM is tactful but also blunt, especially when the subject is Ferrari's prestige. Just last year I remember reading an article where he said of Maserati, "They could not afford our parts." LOL.

I thought it was funny and true but certainly not tactful. The subject of the article was an "entry-level" Ferrari, which LDM totally rejected and denied. Of course, he had to deny it because Ferrari is leaving that segment to Maserati and Alfa.

Thus, the California's pricing shouldn't surprise anyone.

Remember gentlemen, used 430s are trading between 50% and 100% mark up! Superamerica's are trading $300+

The dealer's love this. The manufacturer, however, is not very pleased.

Solution: a gorgeous $200K hard-top convertible that can be sold in large numbers around the globe. You can bet the bulk of the car's newness is in design and that beautiful convertible top, not in the innards, so to speak. The mechanical technology can be lifted from any number of places, as it seems they have been. This keeps development and production costs down and margins way up.

It all spells another homerun from Scuderia LDM. lol


Forza,


Cavallini

 

Great points, although it's not really a fair comparison.

The only real competition is the DB9 drop and the 430.

430 prices will plummet back to their normal level, of course but this will only bother dealers.


Forza,


Cavallini

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

Well since this thread is about the engine I will comment on the ENGINE.

I think it is FABULOUS that Ferrari FINALLY got away from the timing belt design. That in itself is a HUGE plus. I am the kind of guy that works on his car, and that has included doing the full engine out timing belt change on my 348. It will help cut the cost of maintenance down big time. The engine is direct inject, another plus. But Ferrari's Achilles heal is the wiring. Now only time will tell how well the new stuff will hold up, but the wiring on the older cars is way too small for the task, and not very heat resistant. So let's hope Ferrari has remedied this problem. 450hp = plenty. But a custom set of headers, free flow cats, x-pipe, and a free flow muffler should be able to squeeze another 20+hp out of it. Putting it right in 430 power range.

The new engine gets a thumbs up from me.

 

Good points.

Ernie, what exactly do custom or after-market headers do?? I have some on a used car I recently bought and I haven't bothered to do the research. lol


Forza,


Cavallini

 

They can change the way the exhaust moves. If the primary pipes (pipes coming directly out of the head) are too small then there will be a back up of the exhaust pulses. With the proper size primaries the pulses can be spaced out properly causing a scavenging effect on the exhaust to help draw out the gasses from the combustion chamber. In a nut shell the headers will be more efficient and the engine will not have to work so hard to get the gas out.

Then you can change where the power comes on. You can have it come on at higher rpm's, or lower rpm's by adjusting the primary lengths. You can run what is called a tri-y set up, which will match up cylinders in the firing order to further help the extraction of gas. This can help with the mid range power of the engine. Then the headers can be made even more efficient by a properly designed merge collector. There is even more stuff that can by done to a custom set of headers that you don't get from a factory set.

I'm no expert but these guys are. http://www.burnsstainless.com/ They have some very good information on their site.

 

Thanks a million. It sounds like fun. I can see why so many guys become gear-heads.


Forza,


Cavallini

 

Yes, yes it does. I just turned my speakers up a bit and that sound made the hair on my arms stand and salute.

 

It did the same to the hair on my back.

 

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Lol!!

 

_J

 

What a great website. Learned a lot

 

I feel what you are saying; but I still think the new M3 looks weak. The previous gen had an aggressive stance to it. This new one just doesn't have it IMO.

The California is a car I would buy for my future wife but not drive myself.

 

As someone who owns a new M3, an '07 F430 and just put his name on the waiting list for a California, here is my humble opinion. The M3 is an absolute blast to drive. I liken it to a new puppy; it always wants to play.

However, I don't like to drive the M3 right after driving the 430.

Question: How do you make a new BMW E92 M3 seem boring?
Answer: Drive a Ferrari F430 first.

The 430 is such an awesome performer the M3 pales. However, I do think the M3 is a nice complement to the 430. Plenty of room and comfort, looks great, high revving engine that'll smoke the rubber right off those rear wheels. I have room for golf clubs and the back seats are roomier than my M6 was. OK, the cup holders stink but you can't have everything. I'm figuring that by the time I slip behind the wheel of my new California I'll be looking to replace the M3 anyway.

To answer the original question, no I'm not disappointed. I like V8's. I like the 430 engine. The "problem" with BMW engines (and boy does this topic get discussed on the M5/M6 board) is the lack of torque. The 414 hp engine in the M3 feels torquer (is that a word?) in the M3 than it did in my M6. That doesn't mean I don't like the engine, it just feels very different than the V8 in my 430.

 

Great point of view and critique Jais. I have had the opportunity to drive many M3's although not yet an E92. How does the new generation compare from a driver's point of view? Am I going to get out of an 07 and into an 08 saying "oh my god" ?


_J

 

You'll say OMG when you compare the sticker price of the new car to the old car!

I also had the E46 M3. What a great car. The new car might be statistically faster, but it doesn't really feel a whole lot faster. There is more power and torque but there is more weight - this is a bigger car. You can definitely tell there is a V8 up front and not a straight 6. The biggest difference to me is chassis dynamics. The car floats smoooooothly around corners. You are not scared to turn off or dial down the traction control before going into the twisties. Speaking of traction control, in the E46 the DSC would simply cut engine power when the tires started to spin (my M6 did this also) which I never liked as it felt very unsettling. This car doesn't do that. You never feel there is a nanny under the hood. Hit the gas in second coming out of a turn and the rear end slips and the car slides in a very controlled manner. Lots of fun.

 

Interesting. That seems to be a common theme across marques as traction control evolves. The early generations were terribly intrusive