california roof dents

Ah, looking around, are these dents on the inside of the roof? Do they look like they might be made by high heels? I don't mean to start nothing, but this would not be the first time for a Ferrari to suffer "roof dents."

 

FIRST ADVICE - do not operate the roof anymore until you sort out the problem. For now, just leave it where it is, either up or down. If you keep operating it you may do more damage.

SECOND ADVICE - someone else on this forum experienced the same problem. The roof mechanism is made by a German company called Webasto and they supply the same mechanism for convertibles of other brands. Some owners of those cars have also reported the same problem. You need to take the car to the dealer and tell them you may have a failure of one of the hydraulic pumps that lift and lower the roof. Here is the link to the thread where other car owner described his problem and how it was fixed.

THIRD ADVICE - you may be able to determine if there is a hydraulic leak from the pump by opening the left side panel in the trunk and look to see if there is hydraulic fluid.

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Yes, if you follow the thread I linked you in my earlier post, you will see where scrowe says his dents were beautifully sorted by his dealer.

As for the lack of warning(s), I agree. The only signs may be a slowness in the response of the mechanism and the sound of the roof feet contacting the other panel, which would be too late.

 

Can you post a pic for us?

Thanks!

SV

 

That cost me a keyboard and a new cup of coffee!

 

So your coffee must have ended up on the roof as well …or is that not a coffee stain?

 

Back to the external roof dents- those are pretty bad.

Why couldn't Ferrari have made the roof and trunk lid out if carbon fiber. That would be lighter and probably easier on the whole hydraulic system. Less prone to
Failures

 

I agree CF would have been a better choice of material. I believe the weight saving is approx. 40% over aluminium. However, I understand Ferrari is much more heavily invested in aluminium fabrication even though they have capacity to make CF components. The increased investment in CF capacity and production would add to the price of the car.

The other important issue is the F-R balance of the car would be compromised. Ferrari likes to design cars with a rear weight bias to make them more lively, easier to induce oversteer. I think the car handles better roof-down. So they would likely have to also fabricate the hood in CF to compensate. I had momentarily toyed with the idea of having someone replace the hood and roof panels with CF units. I have seen people here do it with M3s.

But in truth I think Ferrari is well aware of these issues and we will likely see improvements in the California replacement anyway. So my idea for making such changes would be foolish, LOL.

My original suggestion was if Ferrari would simply provide a sensor to detect loss of hydraulic pressure or fluid in the pumps used to articulate the metal roof. The problem is apparently usually caused by a piston seal failure resulting in the loss of hydraulic fluid. The sensor would simply signal an alert and disable the roof mechanism to prevent damage.

 

I'm just guessing but I think it's one of those engineering details that do not have a ready off-the-shelf automotive solution. The hydraulic pistons are probably like the ones found on hatchbacks; simple, cheap and small. I don't think the OEM auto parts manufacturers offer special hydraulic lift assemblies with built-in sensors.

I suppose someone could devise a cheap fluid-detection sensor placed where leaked hydraulic fluid would collect. A sensor that reacts with hydraulic fluid or measures change in conductivity should be feasible. The roof dents are probably caused when the piston(s) fail to cushion the lowering of the upper roof panel - it flops down instead of gradually lowering by means of the hydraulic pistons. The piston failure may also affect the lifting (as well as the lowering) mechanism.

Upon further consideration, I think Ferrari is not actually the best party to solve this - it should be either the piston manufacturer or Webasto's responsibility but customers like Ferrari, VW and Mercedes need to apply pressure for things to happen. All cars with Webasto roofs are equally affected.

 

There is a campaign to review the hydraulics on the roof. Perhaps Ferrari has solved the problem. If you haven't taken in for that you probably.

 

Thanks for the heads-up Martin, that's good news. I'm actually planning a visit to pick up the "Reference Guide" that got left out when my car was delivered for pick up.

Maybe they are replacing the pistons with more reliable ones. Would be a lot cheaper than to risk a failure.

BTW, how was the skiing?

 

They were definitely checking for leaks

Skiing was good until 9am, but then the bar opened so everybody was happy

 

Right. LOL!

 

How did they repair the dents?

I bet they called a dent repair service. Since access to the under surface of the panel is easy, they can push it out and/or glue pull from the exterior side.

Probably costs between 150-350 per dent.

 

Went to wash my car today (got tired of waiting for rain) and it was a good thing because I noticed a ding on the passenger side of the roof before it got worse. This ridiculous problem with the Webasto roof mechanism is looking pretty grim. I had even asked my SA to check into the service campaign which Martin gave us the heads-up on. He said it only applied to earlier cars. But regardless of that, it looks like the roof problem also happens to newer cars. I think my car was a January-February build. Here's a photo of what I found today:

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Compare it with the one below, the one posted by scrowe back in May. Looks identical. It's also curious that in both cases, the dents occur on the passenger side. What the heck is it with the passenger side!!!!????

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FWIW, I checked the trunk for any signs of a hydraulic leak from the strut pistons but it was dry. There were no metal filings, as reported by scrowe, either. I think I also located the hydraulic struts that were the points of failure in some of the Webasto roof problems and they also appear to be dry, no signs of any leaks.

I called my sales guy and email him and my SA some photos. It looks like the dent will have to be taken out and the roof will need to be repainted. My car is probably going to be out of commission for at least a couple of weeks. I hope they figure out what caused the problem and prevent it from recurring. I've only had the car for 3 months!

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I'll see if I can light a fire under Ferrari regarding this issue.

 

Regarding lighting a fire under Ferrari about the roof dents, good luck with that! No doubt they will take care of that problem, just as soon as the they take care of the hundreds of TR owner's with the faulty differentials(see the posts in the TR section, suggesting a possible class action lawsuit against Ferrari,and the posts regarding Porsche settling a class action lawsuit). Ferrari really SHOULD be more receptive and responsive to their loyal fans and owner's. Right.

 

My condolences 4th_gear. I hope your dealer is able to quickly sort this out.

I don't know anything about TR differential problems, but I think FNA will need to be responsive since the car is still under an express warranty. I would have thought TR warranties expired a looong time ago.

Good luck.

 

Nice pic of a pretty bad looking ding! SOrry that is a bummer.

 

Thanks Balsamina, my car's going in next week. I'll see what they have to say about the cause of this.

 

Yeah, ain't it? I'm going to find out exactly what is causing this.

 

that's terrible! I'll have to check mine when I get home. BTW, since I posted a reply about not having any roof squeaks and rattles in another thread, mine HAS developed annoying sounds during driving.

 

My car doesn't squeak or rattle but I sometimes hear a thump or a knock from the trunk when I go over a bump - I do leave the cover off the portal for the battery tender so it may be the cover flopping about the trunk floor. The factory should put a hinge on the cover since it gets used every time I use the car.

As for the roof dent, I believe it's the impact noise of the rear glass panel foot striking the roof panel during the roof-lowering operation that will cause an extra loud noise. Otherwise, the Webasto mechanism in my car has always been noisy when it operated. If it had been quiet I would probably have noticed the roof dent happening.

Hope nothing's amiss with your car. I'll report back once I get some answers from Ferrari.