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Calling Ernie, No Doubt and any Ferrari techs

Discussion in '348/355' started by candellara, Sep 8, 2007.

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  1. candellara

    candellara Karting

    Jul 16, 2006
    232
    Chichester, UK
    Full Name:
    Jason
    #1 candellara, Sep 8, 2007
    My 348 continues to have it's mis-fire so turns out not to be bad fuel as thought.

    Symptoms.

    Mis-fire under load at 3-4000 rpm only. Plant the throttle in top gear at 1000 rpm and it pulls normally with no hesitation until 3-4000 rpm. At this rev range the car hesitates, misfires very heavily and then pulls through it at + 4000 rpm and is then ok all the way to redline. Rev the car when not under load and car revs freely to redline. Car starts on the button, idles smoothly but keeps misfiring heavily at 3/4k (no misfire in any gear under 3000 rpm or over 4000 rpm) and continues to misfire constantly very heavily when cruising in top gear between these revs.

    PLugs - changed for NGK (courtesy of Lagerlout) and ok
    Leads - have ruled these out due to nature of mis-fire
    MAF's - set correctly at 382/383 ohms
    Ignition modules / ampliers - swapped out with another 348's and misfire still present
    Coil packs - swapped out systematically with another 348's and misfire still present
    Fuel injector cleaner added to tank
    All connectors and ground straps checked - all ok



    Cam phase sensor ?
    Crank sensor ?

    Any ideas guys - scratching my head on this one
     
  2. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
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    goth
    #2 gothspeed, Sep 8, 2007
    It sounds like it needs the valves adjusted........ though forgive me if they are hydraulic on a 348. :eek:
     
  3. candellara

    candellara Karting

    Jul 16, 2006
    232
    Chichester, UK
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    Jason
    #3 candellara, Sep 8, 2007
    Car was running a ok a few weeks ago and nothing has been touched so - it's something that has developed a fault rather than something mal-adjusted
     
  4. candellara

    candellara Karting

    Jul 16, 2006
    232
    Chichester, UK
    Full Name:
    Jason
    #4 candellara, Sep 8, 2007
    Guys,

    I think i'm going to need to pull the codes on this car. It's a Euro car with no button - the fly lead has a 3pin connector. How am i going to get these read?
     
  5. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
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    Mr. Sideways
    #5 No Doubt, Sep 8, 2007
    Check your basic things first:
    1. air filter isn't clogged
    2. put a voltmeter into your cig lighter and watch the voltage for your car during the misfire
    3. pull all 8 spark plugs, label each one for its cylinder, take close-up photos of the threads/ground electrode area in good lighting, and post the photos here
    4. pull your ECU codes


    http://www.club348.com/technical/Tech/348.html#ECUcodes
    You'll need to order two parts: tester cable 146196 and button 145810

    You've got a Euro 348 that doesn't have CEL's?! You'll need to add two bulbs under your instrument gauge console (two phillips screws to remove the whole console). http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136333561&postcount=5
    This will give you the U.S. model electronic engine diagnosis functionality.


    If the above doesn't get you on the right path, then a compression check and leak down test is in order.
     
  6. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 1, 2004
    7,785
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    Bruce Bogart
    #6 plugzit, Sep 8, 2007
    Pulling fault codes a good idea. Is it affected by:
    1. Throttle position?
    2. Load?
    3. Gear?
    4. Engine temperature?
    5. Are there any conditions under which the hesitation changes-more, less, goes away?
     
  7. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
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    Mr. Sideways
    #7 No Doubt, Sep 8, 2007
    Also, turn on your radio to an empty AM frequency and listen for "ticking" (especially as your rpms start to get into that misfire range).
     
  8. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,966
    Milton, Wash.
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    Jeff B.
    #8 Miltonian, Sep 8, 2007
    Based on your description of the problem, I would NOT eliminate the spark plug leads "due to the nature of the mis-fire". If you are swapping out parts with another 348 to try to isolate the problem, try swapping plug wires. At the least, get an ohm meter and check the resistance on the wires to see if any are noticeably out of whack. Easy to do.

    I'd also suggest that you carefully check the wires going to the two crank sensors. Look under the rubber boots. There have been cases here where an obvious problem was hiding under the boot, either cracked wires or loose/corroded pin connectors.

    Out of curiosity, does the tachometer act "funny" when the engine is missing?
     
  9. fana355france

    fana355france Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Aug 10, 2005
    284
    France
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    nicolas
    #9 fana355france, Sep 9, 2007
    I already had this problem on my ex 348 it was due to a oil leak on the head (camshaft seal well known on 348 ) and the crank sensors where durty because of it.I cleaned and it was ok.

    Too on my 355 now, same problem and I found 2 plug wire cut inside, chech the ohm of each one and you will find one with 0 .

    Nico
     
  10. candellara

    candellara Karting

    Jul 16, 2006
    232
    Chichester, UK
    Full Name:
    Jason
    #10 candellara, Sep 9, 2007
    I'm going to swap out the HT leads with my brother in laws 348 this morning - just to eliminate. Mis-fire only happens under load and not below 3000 rpm and not above 4000 rpm. When mis-firing the rev counter drops several hundred rpm whilst mis-firing. As stated, run in top gear at 1500rpm - plant the throttle to the floor and it pulls with no misfire at all until approx 3500rpm - then car misfires very heavily. Change down a gear and get the revs up past 4000 revs and the cars pulls perfect up to 7500 rpm. Anyone got any pics of the front crankshaft sensor?
     
  11. candellara

    candellara Karting

    Jul 16, 2006
    232
    Chichester, UK
    Full Name:
    Jason
    #11 candellara, Sep 9, 2007
    OK, got the car on a lift this morning - and front crank sensor area was filthy dirty and VERY oily. One of the cables (pictured with arrow) has NO spring clip on it, had been filled with LM grease and was wobbling about on the connector. A thorough clean of the sensors and the connectors cleaned with solvent and the connector that has the missing spring clip - i've secured with a cable tie as a short term measure.

    Driven 50 miles are the car hasn't missed a beat :)

    Even funnier though. We'd changed the plugs and coil packs and simply removed the leads in the order they where fitted. Upon closely comparing with a friends 348 and checking the numbering on the cam covers to the coil pack leads 5 and 6 were inverted on my car and connected to the wrong point on the coil pack. What a transformation!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I thought the car had always ran ok as it's never really mis-fired until recently and i've owned the car for nearly 3 years!!!! The car is now alot smoother and pulls alot stronger mid-range than it ever has done in my ownership.

    I firmly attribute the misfire to front crank sensors and a wobbly data cable so lets hope this is the end of my mis-firing problems :)
     
  12. candellara

    candellara Karting

    Jul 16, 2006
    232
    Chichester, UK
    Full Name:
    Jason
    #12 candellara, Sep 9, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  13. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
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    The Bad Guy
    #13 ernie, Sep 9, 2007
    Sorry to get to this so late, but the Brotherhood has once again come through. I was just gonna repeat what Miltonian and fana355france said anyway.

    Glad to hear you got it sorted out.

    Just so you know, I finished replacing both wiring looms three days ago because of busted wires for the crank sensors. I had repaired one side once before, but then the insulation cracked on the other side, and the repaired side pulled out of the pin. So I said screw it, and just replaced the looms altogether. A big thanks goes to Plugzit for having spare looms handy.

    Anyway, glad to hear you got it fixed and................LONG LIVE THE BROTHERHOOD!
     
  14. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
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    Pap
    #14 PAP 348, Sep 9, 2007
    I saw this thread.............but I am on vaction. :D:D

    Glad to hear you got it sorted mate. :):)

    The Brotherhood rocks! :D:D
     
  15. candellara

    candellara Karting

    Jul 16, 2006
    232
    Chichester, UK
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    Jason
    #15 candellara, Sep 9, 2007
    Just been out driving it like i stole it :) and she hasn't missed a beat once. Epic - love my 348

    Thanks to all you guys for your friendly help and advice.

    My white Challenge rims should arrive this week :) and have decided that i'm going to undertake a full engine out cambelt service with a colleague as from mid November. Gonna have that engine bay looking like a show car :)

    Lots of pics will be posted
     
  16. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
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    Jeff B.
    #16 Miltonian, Sep 9, 2007
    Jason, kudos to you for your detailed posts and pictures. In particular, kudos for the followup posts so we know what you found. When we see feedback like this posted in the thread, it's a big help to others in the future. I'm sure it was scary to experience the misfire, not knowing what was wrong, is it going to be expensive to fix?? Am I going to have to trust the dealer to make it right??

    No, buddy......YOU fixed it yourself! And you didn't take a "hit" in the wallet!

    That ROCKS!!
     
  17. candellara

    candellara Karting

    Jul 16, 2006
    232
    Chichester, UK
    Full Name:
    Jason
    #17 candellara, Sep 9, 2007
    Cheers Jeff - you guys are great

    Have a got my pass now as a member of "the brotherhood"?

    Jason

    PS Someone will have to send that cap over to the UK for a short while:)
     
  18. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The Bad Guy
    #18 ernie, Sep 10, 2007
    +100!!!
     
  19. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
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    The Bad Guy
    #19 ernie, Sep 10, 2007
    You were a member of the Brotherhood the day you bought a 348. ;)
     
  20. cscott67

    cscott67 Formula Junior

    May 13, 2007
    418
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    Scott
    #20 cscott67, Sep 10, 2007
    Glad to hear you fixed the problems AND got it running even better, Scott
     
  21. Kevallino

    Kevallino Formula 3

    Feb 10, 2004
    2,257
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    Kevin
    #21 Kevallino, Sep 10, 2007
    Just now seeing this thread, glad you found the problem. When I got my car I had a flat spot at around 6K that was down to dirty CPS.

    Congrats on the cheap fix.

    Kev
     
  22. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    100,224
    Mount Isa, Australia
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    Pap
    #22 PAP 348, Sep 11, 2007


    If you want a Brotherhood cap, PM Hadley, he has 8 left mate. :):)

    Just reimburse him the freight cost and its all yours. :):)

    You will love the cap. :):)
     

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