News

cam belt 7 years, 17K

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by zsnnf, May 28, 2004.

  1. zsnnf

    zsnnf Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2003
    1,877
    I just had a 30K service done on my F40. The belts had 17K miles on them and were 7 years old. There was no signs of trama or cracking.

    So I guess they last longer if you use 'em.

    FYI,
    Rick
     
  2. Mike C

    Mike C F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 3, 2002
    6,074
    Southeast USA
    Full Name:
    Mike Charness
    I think that's a fact. My '84 308QV went 10 years and 21K miles before it was done the first time from new. I'm going to have it done again in the next couple of months when it's at its 52.5K service, so it's been 10 years and over 30K miles on this second set (I enjoy driving the car, including several track events each year).

    The owner's manual says the FIRST replacement of the belts should be done at this 52.5K service. So I've done it at half the "recommended service interval" since this is the second time... that's twice in 20 years, though I know many folks say 5 years max regardless of the actual miles.
     
  3. Husker

    Husker F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 31, 2003
    7,900
    western hemisphere
    The whole cam belt schedule promoted by Ferrari is a ruse, pure and simple. They use scare tactics and outrageous horror stories to get you back into their shop within 2-3 years...so that you can pony up more $$$ thousands and feed their dealerships.

    Let's look at the evidence...

    For years, it was "52,000 miles" with no time limit mentioned.
    Then it became 5 years or 52K, whichever sooner.
    Then came 3 years or 30K whichever is sooner.
    Now I'm hearing "2 years" showing up in some manuals.

    Do the math..."change every year" is the next recommendation. I have seen many, many Ferraris out there with 15-20 year old belts. Yes, that's stupid, but probably not as stupid as changing every 2 to 3 years. Every time you drop that engine to replace belts, you are taking a very real risk that the Ferrari mechanic idiot won't put something back together right. Then what do you have?

    Question for thought: Which do you hear more...major engine damage from a worn out belt, or from an idiot "technician" screwing something up?
     
  4. zsnnf

    zsnnf Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2003
    1,877
    You bring up some interesting points....
    Keep in mind the engines today are seeing higher RPM than those of the past. I did see the belts off of an F40 with only 150 miles after 12 years. The back of the belts had rubber balled up on them..... Use it or lose it :)
    As far as "idiot technicians" go, I hope after a few years of ownership you can find a good mechanic you can trust. I know I would never take my car back to the dealer that did the PPI and most of the services that the original owner had done. I also had a local Ferrari shop do some minor work that turned out real bad. But, I have found a shop that is doing my 30K that I feel real good about. He knows these cars real well and I will listen to his input on servicing the car.

    Rick
     
  5. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,022
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    To add to what Husker said. Once you have worked on the car, and even done the service yourself, you really can see how the dealers are ripping people off. Maybe they will start to change there ways. But then again, maybe a rock will fart. LOL.
     
  6. sjmst

    sjmst F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 31, 2003
    9,787
    Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    Sam
    I could not have said it better!
     
  7. Husker

    Husker F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 31, 2003
    7,900
    western hemisphere

    Thankfully, I have a competent independent technician. The first time I told him "3 years or 30K miles, whichever is sooner" he let out a "BWHAHAHAHA." He then told me if I have money to throw away, just to put it in an envelope and mail it straight to his home address.
     
  8. henryk

    henryk Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2003
    479
    Door County, WI
    While the belts may hold up 7-10 years, I doubt that some of the seals, valve gaskets, etc., do. I am referring to leaking seals that have to have the engine out, and belts off, to service........if so, then one may as well replace the belts.

    In my experience, I have not ever had a "dry" Ferrari engine, which was driven for 7-10 years, to stay dry. Something needed replacing!
     
  9. RAYMAN

    RAYMAN Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Mar 10, 2004
    315
    Oklahoma
    Full Name:
    Raymond Santilli
    I agree with all the above, sounds like oil changes, used to be 7,500 miles now 3,000, what's next 1,500? Madison Avenue at it's finest, using the oldest motivator in the world...FEAR!
     
  10. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2001
    17,059
    USA
    Full Name:
    Hugh G. Rection
    Not BMW, they recommend 15k for oil/filter changes! Granted they use synthetic oil, but I still half it and change at 7500 or so. I saw a post on a BMW board that an owner had the oil analyzed at 15k, it was pretty much at the end of it's useful life, but not dangerously so. So I guess BMW did their homework on that...
     
  11. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
    2,570
    Pacific NW
    Full Name:
    Anthony C.
    I think it's all relative. I believe it greatly depends on the owner of the vehicle. If the car is a garage queen (I am sure that we all know a few, not just Ferraris but Porsches, Lambos, MB etc.), than I think it is wise to have them replaced on a shorter interval as the belts will take form and harden. If a car is run on a regular bases...say once a week or so, the belts, gaskets, seals etc. will last much longer. Most of us do not use our Ferrari as a everyday car, which makes comparison of service intervals somewhat pointless. Same case as the oil, I would change the oil in a turbo charged engine every 5K miles or so, even with synethics. Differences in engine types, climates, type of driving, and drivers (Driving style) all have to be taken into consideration. Like a lot of things in life, there are times that you can only make a general statement to make sure all the bases are cover as it is impossible formulate and cater to each and every single situation.
     
  12. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
    7,731
    CA
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    Yes I think the belts can last, but the gaskets seem to go quicker & start leaking.
     
  13. 4re gt4

    4re gt4 Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2002
    2,279
    Roseburg, OR
    Full Name:
    Hans E. Hansen
    I must be an old fart. Oil used to be recommended MANY years ago at 1500 miles, then was extended out to 3000. 7500 is a relatively new thing, but if you read the fine print in the owners manuals, usually you will find 3000 is the true recommendation for many of the driving conditions that most of us experience.

    As for belts, 30K is what is in my 1975 owners manual states. During the 1980s, many manufacturers misinterpreted a US gov regulation that prohibited certain maintenance during the first 50K on any system that affected emissions. Ferrari - and many others - thought that meant cam belts, among other things. So you see 52.5K recommendations on 80s vintage cars, but 30K on both earlier and later cars.
     
  14. GavC

    GavC Formula Junior

    May 9, 2004
    492
    Lincolnshire, Englan
    Full Name:
    Gavin Culshaw
    I've reponded before on this subject. I own a 308gt4 and do nearly everything myself. I have changed my cambelts once in 9 yrs of ownership and have to say that. Its the garages that work on fear. In the manual it recommends changing belts around the 30k mark. How many ferraris cover more than 5000 miles a year. Not many I bet I have only done 10k in my ownership. Last 2 yrs not many had a sick engine (Valve Guide Knackered) now have the money to rebuild it. Will change the cambelts again only cost £11 each. I would recommend changing them every 5 yrs. Don't be ripped off on the fear factor. Another big debate it leaded/unleaded petrol no one would make a descision on this topic when I asked local dealership on their advice. My car has a low compression has alloy heads which have hardened valve seats. And the valve guides wore out as they are bronze/copper and do,t have anything to do with lead acting as a lube on them.
     
  15. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,022
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    In regard to the gaskets leaking, it is because of a stupid design. Most cars have one gasket all the way around the valve cover, one for each side, for a grand total of two. But ooooooh no, not Ferrari. On my 348 there are six gaskets for the valve covers, and they do not seal at the ends. The only place they have some sort of seal is around the spark plug openings, everywere else nothing at all. My solution, as well as many others, silicone. But I used a VERY conserative amount. Some people put way too much. They act as if they are putting icing on a cheap cake. You only need a tiny amount on both sides of the gasket, and were the gaskets meet the oil rings. To date I have no oil leaks.

    Speaking of oil. If you use synthetic there is no need to change it every 3,000 miles. Especially since the car hold almost THREE GALLONS of oil. The owners manual for my 348 says it holds 11.9 quarts. It also says that you can change it at 7,500 miles. The only time I can see changing out the oil that much is if you are tracking the car every weekend, all weekend. What is another crock is the $300 oil changes at the dealer. I bought three gallons of Mobile 1 sythetic 5-30, from Wal Mart, for about $40. The dealers try to sell you the "Special Ferrari" oil, at an extream markup. Then they charge you for a full hour, minimum. What a crock.
     
  16. Husker

    Husker F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 31, 2003
    7,900
    western hemisphere
    Ahhhh yes...the 15K oil change. THAT's what happens when, all of the sudden, the MANUFACTURER has to pay for the oil change instead of YOU!!

    My Mercedes is the same way. This is just a scam...I bought a new 1994 C220 and the manual said "change oil every 5000 miles" if I remember correctly. But that's when MB didn't PAY for scheduled maintenance, so of course, they wanted me to do it MORE OFTEN.

    But...when I bought my 2002 MB C240 brand new, the oil now only needs changing every 15K miles. The difference? Mercedes is now paying for the oil change!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

    Now...if Ferrari offered to pay for the cam belt change for, say, the first 5 years of ownership, suddenly it wouldn't be necessary to change but every 10 years!

    If ever in doubt, FOLLOW THE MONEY. It works EVERY time.
     
  17. henryk

    henryk Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2003
    479
    Door County, WI
    I agree with Ernie. My TR manual states to change the oil at 7,500 miles..........it does hold 3 gallons!!!!!!!!!! I change mine every 5,000 miles......usually comes out to once per year. Who came up with this ridiculous 3,000 mile oil change idea, anyway?

    Even my 83 Boxer manual states 6,250 miles per oil change. I change mine every 5,000 miles, again, usually once per year. It also contains about 3 gallons of oil.

    Even my Camry manual states 7,500 miles, and it only holds about 1.5 gallons of oil............I change it every 5,000 miles, also.

    Those who change their oil every 3,000 miles, are just throwing money away......it just seems such a waste!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    At 3,000 miles, my oil still looks clear, on all the above cars! I use Castro 10-30, or 20-40W, on my cars, depending on season.........no synthetics.
     
  18. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 30, 2003
    15,974
    Savannah
    Full Name:
    I NEED A JOB
    love this topic, my belts and tesioners were done either in 98 or 2001, i have to look at the records. car has 59k miles on it , so its needs a 30k on it again, check the valve clearances ect. lots of good ideas and stories here!!!! i am debating on just pulling the engine / trans and doing a bunch of stuff all at once...........
     

Share This Page