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Cam Belt Replacement Trouble

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by NeedSpace, May 7, 2020.

  1. NeedSpace

    NeedSpace Karting

    Nov 23, 2012
    68
    Bergen County NJ
    I have been making good headway on removing everything to replace my cam belts.

    I removed the front cam cover.
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    and remove the bolts from the rear, however, I am having trouble getting the cover out. It appears to be blocked by a fitting attached to the fuel system. You can see the bolt in the last photo. Can this fitting be removed? Do have to remove the fuel system.
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    Strangely enough, none of the posts or videos I have reviewed mention any difficulties with this. I wonder if the problem is specific to mondial 8s.

    For the record, these are a few of my favorite posts related to this.
    http://www.birdman308.com/service/timing_belt/timing_belt_procedure.htm


     
    paulchua likes this.
  2. FerrariJB

    FerrariJB Karting

    Jun 8, 2019
    53
    Netherlands
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    FerrariJB
    You have to loosen the fuel system and put it up a little, to get the cover out. Same on my Mondial QV.
     
  3. FerrariJB

    FerrariJB Karting

    Jun 8, 2019
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    FerrariJB
    And the airfilter house.
     
  4. NeedSpace

    NeedSpace Karting

    Nov 23, 2012
    68
    Bergen County NJ
    Rats...ok good to know. thanks for the speedy help. Wonder why this step was left out of all of the instructions? If it effects QV and 8, I assume it effects all of them.
     
  5. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Mitchell Le
    Mondial has the same engine as the 308 but it is packaged into a different chassis so some changes were necessary. Most of it is the same though.
     
  6. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie
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    May 25, 2013
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    The good way is to lower the engine ;) Usually people don't have to take the step FerrariJB took with a little bit of wiggling, but when things have been bolted out before (your time), things could not be on the same exact place as before and it's a very tight place in there.
     
  7. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Jul 1, 2013
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    Paul Chua
    wow, what a great post, keep up the great work! Thanks for sharing with the community as well.
     
  8. NeedSpace

    NeedSpace Karting

    Nov 23, 2012
    68
    Bergen County NJ
    #8 NeedSpace, May 9, 2020
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
    Thanks for the help. This was harder than I expected, especially since no one else wrote about it.

    I removed the airbox, 3 screws holding down pressure plate housing (?), then removed the larger black housing. I detached the 2 fuel lines as well (a little spillage, not bad).
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    Finally with a lot of coaxing and twisting I was able to bring the cover out the top.

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    I set the engine to TDC. This is hard to see, through the viewing port on top of the engine, you can see the metal dot toward the center of the engine lines up with the red plate in the bellhousing. It is in the bottom of the photo below. Sweet!

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    Then I built my cam locks. That was fun. You might also be able to see I drew lines across my cams in gold to make sure nothing moved...can you say paranoid?

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    Now I am ready to change the belts! Wish me luck!
     
  9. FerrariJB

    FerrariJB Karting

    Jun 8, 2019
    53
    Netherlands
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    FerrariJB
    You have fun, perfect. You are doing a Nice job. Just go on. Take your time. Stay to have fun and it goes well
     
  10. FerrariJB

    FerrariJB Karting

    Jun 8, 2019
    53
    Netherlands
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    FerrariJB
    I see know also: when removing the cover I also removed the small plastic cover on the inside of the engine at the top. this allows the cover cap to come down and less need to go up.
     
  11. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
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    Apr 27, 2001
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    Did that inner fence break off the cam pulley?
     
  12. FerrariJB

    FerrariJB Karting

    Jun 8, 2019
    53
    Netherlands
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    FerrariJB
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    I mean that small coverplate on top (see yellow marker). Answer to your question?
     
  13. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
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    No, last pic in post #8 of rear bank belt/lock/pulleys. Something (circular) is dangling behind the exhaust cam pulley. Kinda looks like the inner fence of that pulley, (the lip that helps guide the belt). Maybe its a camera trick or shadow
     
  14. FerrariJB

    FerrariJB Karting

    Jun 8, 2019
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    FerrariJB
    Yes, You are missing the inner fence of that pulley!
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  15. FerrariJB

    FerrariJB Karting

    Jun 8, 2019
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  16. NeedSpace

    NeedSpace Karting

    Nov 23, 2012
    68
    Bergen County NJ
    I noticed that was broken. Is it that important? Do you think I can simply glue it back on? Seems like a really flimsy part so not sure its purpose.
     
  17. FerrariJB

    FerrariJB Karting

    Jun 8, 2019
    53
    Netherlands
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    FerrariJB
    I think is for to guide the belt in the right position.
    Left shaft at the back and right shaft at the front the guide.
    If it is my car I would replace the wheel.
     
  18. DanielGA

    DanielGA Karting

    Mar 19, 2018
    131
    Midwest
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    Daniel A.
    BTW, I did this once with engine in and once with engine out, Mondial 8. With engine in, my camlocks slipped a bit (few degrees) and I think I got them back in place. However, with engine out I used a degree wheel to get everything quite precise (I think).

    Conclusion: if you are doing with engine-in and assuming currently it is "perfectly timed", then you need to keep everything exactly static. Even a half cam gear slip is a lot. Alternatively, don't worry about locking, rather use a degree wheel and make sure timing is perfect after words. You can do with engine in or out.

    Degree wheel is cheap -- I printed one using home printer, on thick paper, and then glued to a hard plastic board I had, then cut with saw to be approximately circular and then put on crankshaft. No significant cost. Degree'ing the cam shafts however does take trial-n-error and patience, but then you know you got it right :)
     
  19. BillyD

    BillyD Formula 3
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    Feb 28, 2004
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    I broke a portion of my cam gear when I pried on it like an idiot. Only broke a small piece and used epoxy to repair. The million $$ question is why is yours broke? With a complete pulley fence failure I’d replace it and verify that cam drive bearings and tensioner are 100% good.
     
  20. NeedSpace

    NeedSpace Karting

    Nov 23, 2012
    68
    Bergen County NJ
    This sounds interesting, would be great to have the extra data. do you have any photos on this?
     
  21. NeedSpace

    NeedSpace Karting

    Nov 23, 2012
    68
    Bergen County NJ
    I put the new bearings and belts in. Everything lines up as it should. So I am quite pleased with the results. Next up is the water pump. i unscrewed everything and the bugger isn't coming out. I think I may have to take off the plenum and disconnect the whole unit. I think the gasket is fused to both sides of the pump. It probably hasn't been replaced in more than 15 years. It spins nicely, but it was weaping a little so bet to take care of this now. Any suggestions? In the photo, you can see waterpump partially out.


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  22. NeedSpace

    NeedSpace Karting

    Nov 23, 2012
    68
    Bergen County NJ
    I can only suspect it was either the previous owner that busted it, or it may have been broken my my cam locks. I'll look through old pics and verify. I think I may just epoxy it, I'm guessing it is a ***** to get out. I'll price it tomorrow and do a little research as well before making my decision...but the expression "ounce of prevention to a pound of cure is popping in my head!

    Do you have any pics of your repair?
     
  23. BillyD

    BillyD Formula 3
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    Feb 28, 2004
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    I can't believe I was able to find this pic in my messy computer pictures folder.
    I remember not being too worried about it as I figured the belt wasn't close to it, it seemed flimsy and figured if belt rode up on it, it would break anyway. Today I'd probably throw money at it to be safe and get those easy to adjust aluminum pulleys.

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  24. NeedSpace

    NeedSpace Karting

    Nov 23, 2012
    68
    Bergen County NJ
    Wow, thanks for finding the pic. I think I am going to repair it as well, Honestly I don't think it serves too much purpose but to bump the belt back into place. I've done some reading and it doesn't like like I can go without it safely. I'll still inquire of the cost though, just to see. Thanks again!
     
  25. NeedSpace

    NeedSpace Karting

    Nov 23, 2012
    68
    Bergen County NJ
    Finally was able to get my water pump out. Noticed I might have some weeping hoses I'll need to attend to. Makes me wonder if there was anything wrong with my water pump? The antifreeze I saw near the pump could have been the leaky hoses under the plenum.

    So here is the question. My water pump looks almost new on the inside with a metal impeller. The new one, looks a little cheap with plaster impeller. Here's a video. What would you guys do?

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