I probably (unfortunately), know the answer to the question I'm asking. my '83 US QV developed an oil leak toward the end of driving season, front bank, passenger side, lower side. Onto the exhaust manifold, causing smoke. I pulled the cam cover, hoping it is just a cam cover gasket. I have he full gasket and seals set, but was really hoping that the cam seals themselves were OK. Additional work, and honestly, a little nervous about pulling the cams to do the seals, as it's something I've never done. The seals are a year old, done by a very reputable ferrari mechanic, so I've thried to convince myself they should be ok. lol I'llk try to attache the pics of the seals, I'm kind of suspecting that they need to be replaced (front one especially), but additional input is appreciated. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Sorry I can't help you with your actual question. But I will be following this thread carefully as I fear this is a job that I will need to do. Getting the covers off. Did they come away easily, I've seen horror stories about getting them off (see Barkaways video where they've manufactured a huge metal plate specifically to separate the covers from the block).
The cover came off not too bad. Once all the nuts, distributor cap, etc, were off I was able to tap a plastic wedge under the edge of the cover, and get that popped up a cm or so. Then, tapped it back down with a rubber hammer, which popped the back edge up a small amount. From there, it was probably 10 min of walking it up the studs. I found that using the plug hole to put my fingers in for some leverage to "rock" it back and forth made the most progress.
Re original post .A pic of the outside near the cam wheels there shafts underneath should confirm if the cam seals are the culprits . Use a small mirror . The current inside pic s tells nothing . Oil ….not wanting to ignite an oil thread ……they 3#8 s leak less with trad old fashioned 20w40w mineral ( high Zinc ) .But it needs regular changing . Todays 21 st century modern synthetic s inho are unsuitable .They find week spots in gaskets / seals = weeps + leaks that otherwise wouldn’t have occurred is you used old fashioned 70 s Duckhams 20w40w ( the green one ) or Castrol GTX mineral with a view to regular shorter changes circa every 2-3K miles .
I think the Barkways video had to do with removing the entire head not the cam cover. The cam covers on my 78 GTS came off with no problems. As for the cam seals I changed mine a while ago but actually had to reseal them as a small leak developed between the cam cover / head and the seal casing. I used the same sealer as I used when changing the diff seals. No leaks since. I could tell where the leak was by cleaning the area around the cam seals then driving it and checking for oil around the seals. The rear ones can be checked by feel but the front ones require jacking the car up and inspecting with a flashlight. Something to consider is that the cam drive seals may be leaking. Since you recently had the cam seals changed I would take a close look at the cam drive seals. There are many threads about changing the seals both cam and cam drive. I run 20-50 synthetic blend and have no leaks. Good Luck
Was there any silcone-type sealant placed at the edge of the cam seals (and you removed it along with the gasket, before taking the pic), or was not present? I see one random dab, but that's not in the right spot anyway. ETA: you're sure the old seals were replaced - they showed/gave them to you, after they were replaced?
Bl10: I couldn’t find my mirror, but I did look with the borescope. Not sure if the screenshot from it is any use, but looking at it live, I can definitely say that the outside of the cams is dry, and oil-free. thorn: 100% certain the seals are new. Saw the old ones. There was some silicone sealant, it appears to have mostly stayed with the cam cover, as I’ve been spending a fair amount of time polishing it off. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
The fact that it just started leaking, I assume, and the cam seals were changed recently and didn't leak would lead me to look at the cam drive seals or front main seal. Mine developed a slight front main seal leak. Mine set in my garage for a decade and one half without being started of moved and didn't leak at first when I got it going a couple of years ago but started leaking from the cam seals water pump and front main seal after driving it c couple of thousand miles. So far I've changed. Cam seals Cam drive seals and bearings. Front main seal. Diff seals Distributor seals. Rear head gasket due to bent valves. (my fault) Cam belts to Derek White's round tooth belts. Cam pulleys to match belts and permit simple cam timing adj. Hill idler pulleys. Pertronix ignition. A couple of the seals were so hard and brittle they broke when flexed. Good Luck Barry
Mine's a 2 V so things may be different. Two V engines can leak where the cam cover gasket intersects the cam seals. Don't know about the 4V. If you are sure its the cam seal that's leaking its not that difficult to change. Having said that I would not try and change it by removing the pully instead of the cam. If its anything like the 2 V engines the bolt that holds the cam pully to the cam is really tight and difficult to get off without moving the cam. The worst thing on mine is the AC compressor which has to come off. There are tons of threads about changing cam seals. On the 2 V I just line up the marks on the cams / cam cap, verify TDC and lock the other cam in place using paper under a cam cap and have at it. If you have both cam covers off its really easy to lock everything in place so the engine can't rotate. Barry
You don't have to remove the cams to replace cam seals. In fact, you don't even need to pull the cam cover off, but you already have. I'll attach a picture of my leaking intake seal.* I just pulled it out and pressed a new one in. There's also the cam seal carrier o-ring. I think if that's leaking you probably do have to at least loosen the cams a bit to get those out. *Interesting note is that in this picture you can see my cam cover gasket squished out but the dab of RTV has kept it sealed.....so far. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Why is the dealership saying the enitre plenium and the valve covers, and cam all have to come out on my 328 in order to replace the cam seals ? Big G
Brian, your picture is actually helping to reassure me that it is the cam cover seal, and not the cam seals. My outside seals are both dry and oil free. I’m leaning toward doing the cam cover gasket and then running it to make sure it’s dry. This is an add-on to a few projects this winter, which includes having to replace the AC system. So I won’t put the AC compressor back on until much later in the process anyway. Saves a little time if I do have to go back in for the seals.
To replace the bank 2 exhaust cam seal on a 328, the by the book way is remove engine lid remove intake plenum and ancillaries remove cam cover and ancillaries remove AC compressor and ancillaries remove all other belts, brackets, and timing belt cover remove timing belt (replace with new) remove cam caps on the cam shaft to come out lift out the cam shaft after fiddling with the back plate remove seal carrier from cam shaft, replace seal and oring What B Harper is proposing is to skip steps 1-3 above, do the rest to get to see the cam seal, drill a hole in the cam seal, yank it out, and press in a new seal. Removing that AC compressor and bracket is absolutely no fun if the engine lid is still on.
QV and 328, the aluminum flange that holds the lip seal and Oring will not fit past the 'front' end of the camshaft, hence the need to remove the cams to replace those seals. Not to mention the Oring seal requires lifting the cam out of it's journals, so at that point it's out. The fiberglass back panel only complicates things a touch more.
I can say from my limited experience, doing this one that removing the plenum isn’t necessary, might make it easier, but not completely necessary. Undoing the throttle cable to get it out of the way is definitely helpful. Removing the deck lid is necessary in my (limited) opinion. I read some threads where others have somehow managed to get the covers off without this step, and I honestly can’t imagine how. I can only conclude that their anatomy differs from mine, and they have extra joints that I do not possess.
I replaced my cam seals about 10 years ago on my '87 328. Cams came out to do it. I did not remove the plenum. While in there I enlarged the single little drain back hole in the vicinity of the large cam O rings. I also drilled one more hole for each so now I have two drain back holes on each camshaft. Since doing that I have not had any oil leakage either at the cam seal or the valve cover gasket which was always problematic.
I want to add one tip not mentioned that really makes the cam and timing cover job easier in my opinion. In addition to removing the equipment listed (except the plenum). Remove both rear tires so you can lower the rear of the car down to floor level. It really helps site and reach.
During the major service of the car where timing belts are replaced, water pump is replaced or rebuilt, 40mm hoses in the V of the engine are replaced, as well as the bleed hose with its metal mounting tab, removal of the plenum is the only way. In addition, if you are proceeding to measure and adjust valve clearance of the forward bank, removing the plenum makes the job that much easier and quicker. When I service a QV or 328, I always remove the plenum, the fuel injectors and the CIS fuel pipes and hoses. It makes the job much easier and therefore faster (for me). Working on these cars is hard so anytime I can make it easier, I do that. If all I need to do is one seal, I probably do it through the wheel well.
