Cam Variator failure

I read that the variators were recommended to be changed at every belt change. What a disaster. I haven't seen miles between failure data, how far did the car roll, with the updated variator, before this failure occured? If an updated variator failed, does Hill Engineering make one that is more reliable?

 

I think this could help you and you safe some bucks!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1999-Ferrari-360-Engine-V8_W0QQitemZ280415936177QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item414a179eb1

 

I have seen a few report of the updated variator failure, never seen one failure of the old version variator. Seems like the updated variator has no advantage over the old one.

 

There was an Australian guy earlier this year who had this happen and there's a really long thread all about it

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=240871

 

I just read all of the thread. The upgraded variator failed. It was installed in April 2004 and failed in 2009, covering a distance of 10k miles.

Are variators failing on 430's?

 

Based on all I have read on this I am contemplating changing the variators every other belt service. Yes this is the second failure I have heard about in the past couple of months, but with the thousands of 360s made the probability of failure still seems very remote...it is unfortunate, but I guess if I do 4 year intervals on belts that works out to every 8 years...heck, I'd probably do them once during the whole ownership of the car.

My car was updated unusually late (just last year even though its a 2000 model-year car) which works to my advantage as they are only 1 year old.

 

I haven't heard of one. I bought mine new 8/05 and it now has 17K on it. There are no TSB's on it.

Dave

 

pretty sure that the 430 V8 has very very very little to do with the 360 V8. The 360 V8 if I recall is more of a modified 355 v8

 

Variators are only $417 each but replacing them has often required replacement of the camshaft and those are about $1200 each and then there will be a substantial labor bill.

You will run up the price of a service real quick.

I think someone should be tracking failures so that a case can be made that Ferrari has not fixed a known problem. It has been done many times before.

 

Brian- What actually happens when a variator fails on a 360? Logically, if designing one, a failure would just not advance the cam and only cost you a little power until repaired. I had a failure on the VVT solenoid on my wife's GL 550 Mercedes recently and all it did was give a CEL. Replaced under warranty with no damage to the engine. Without the CEL lamp, I would not even have known there was a problem.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

The variator is functionally the part that connects the sprocket to the cam. It is a big male fastener that screws into the nose of the cam and the shaft breaks at the radius at the base of the threads. When that happens it quits driving the cam. There is a picture of a broken one in the other thread.

 

Brian- Ouch. Designed in failure point. I looked at the photos. Must have been a hundred different ways to design that system so a failure was not catastrophic.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Brian,
Is the 430 variator substantially different?

Dave

 

Its design is not disimilar. I have not had one in my hand so I do not know if there were any detail changes to the shaft where the 360 piece breaks. They started having trouble with the 360's in Challenge racing first. I have not heard of trouble with the 430 Challenge cars but I am not very close to that anymore.

 

One thing I can think of with the way that variable timing mechanism appears to work would be to increase the diameter of the threaded part to give it more strength. I cringe to think of a motor going 1,000 rpm let alone 8,500 rpm when that part snaps and the pistons go crashing into whatever valves are partially opened at the time when the camshaft stops. Being as I doubt they can change the diameter of that part without changing the camshaft at a minimum or perhaps even more in-depth changes, the logical next thing I can think of is if we were lucky enough for the factory supplier or Hill Engineering to manufacture the same exact variator but made with a stronger metal if that's possible...

This sucks- it seems to be a very rare thing, but it will always be in my mind unless a better variator is manufactured and installed in my motor!

 

shhhhh....

 

This might sound silly,.... but would it be possible to "x-ray" the shaft/gear in the car during each belt service similar to what they do to check for fatigue on an aircraft propeller?

 

is that the same Shhhh as on the front wheel bearings of F40, TR, and most all 3x8 series: The shhhh is like torture.

 

Don't worry- your secret is safe with me- no one is reading this thread anymore

 

430 looks very similar, but now you have twice as many chances for a failure because both intake and exhaust have VVT.

Looks like a solenoid failure would not be catastrophic on this engine.

Taz
Terry Phillips
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Anyone have any idea as to how much power it takes to turn one cam at 8500 RPMs?

 

Hi Guys

I am an Aircraft Engineer and have quite a lot of experience with mechanical components failing, looking at the 360 Variator I was shocked to see how small the threaded portion that screws into the cam is, also the oil way that runs through the centre reduces the amount of material there drastically! That combined with an over tensioned cam belt is a recipe for disaster IMO. I know your cam belt should be tensioned correctly but you will never know that really unless you do it yourself, or have a mech that is competent and that you completely trust. It is possible that if the belt is correctly tensioned that this failure will never occur, is it just an under engineered component...I think so…we will have to wait and see!
It would be possible to have the Variators NDT’d (Non Destructive Testing) at a cam belt change but unless the fault was in there at manufacture, I don’t think you would see anything. If a crack is there I think it would of failed already, or you have been damn lucky!

So I take it that there is not an upgraded Variator available at the moment? There should be if not!

 

QUESTION: THe belt I believe has a self tensioner, so what changes would you make as a designer to repair this problem? You insights would be good, as NO one want an aircraft to fall out of the either.

thanks