Camel build | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Camel build

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by snj5, Sep 17, 2009.

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  1. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #26 snj5, Sep 21, 2009
    The Russian engines I think are too powerful at near 360 hp, and complicated (pneumatic start) and bulky at 472 pounds; the appeal of the Rotec is that is near the same @150 hp as the original (and the sam as the Bentley engined Camels) and a very simple engine. The original Clerget/LeRhones used weighed in at 295 - 330 pounds - not bad for a 14 liter engine except most of it is spinning. The Rotec is similar at 275 pounds with all of its accesories, and is a new motor which does not spin so much. It also will have it's own CG sit out a couple inches forward of the rotaries, which should help a little

    Bob, you know more than I do, but I am anticipating the tube fuselage to be a little lighter than the original wood.

    Something that was brought up today, was since we are not using a total loss oil system, was to put a 20 gallon header tank where the oil tank used to be next to the firewall, like an Aeronca Champ. The original Camel had a huge 30+ gallon fuel tank **behind the pilot**, which when full made the plane difficult on take off which is well documented.
    We'll see what the numbers say. The uniquely Sopwith Camel handling trait that it will definitely have is most of the mass will be concentrated around the center of gravity, just without the giant 400 pound engine/prop gyroscope hanging off the front. I won't be able to turn right as fast but I will be able to turn left faster. :)

    Of course as a joke in trying to keep this airplane bone simple as the original you could almost say it was an "Aeronca Camel" or a "Sopwith Champ"

    All advice welcome.
     
  2. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    #27 Bob Parks, Sep 21, 2009
    I'm showing my ignorance about the newer stuff in powerplants and the Rotec sounds MUCH better then the Russian engine. As far as frames go , the steel tube fuselage would be so much more durable and simple to maintain . The wooden frames were full of fretted little steel fittings, pins,wire rigging that had to be tuned, and a myriad of work to build. I think that you are going in the right direction with modernizing things to be reliable, workable on modern aerodromes, fun to fly, and safe. A great project.
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  3. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #28 Etcetera, Sep 21, 2009
    Not finished yet?
     
  4. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #29 snj5, Sep 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  5. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    #30 Bob Parks, Sep 21, 2009
    Russ, has this fuselage structure been stress analyzed ? Are you going to build the wings,etc.?
     
  6. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #31 snj5, Sep 21, 2009
    1.yes; computers are amazing things these days
    2.yes - will go up there in November to build the wings

    :)
     
  7. solofast

    solofast Formula 3

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    #32 solofast, Sep 22, 2009
    LOOOOOKING GOOOOODDDD!!!

    Great stuff...
     
  8. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #33 snj5, Sep 23, 2009
    Another driver in how this airplane comes together, from a practical point of view was for it to meet the new LSA rules.
    Light-Sport Aircraft:

    So as I get older (next couple of years) it seems I may opt to fly under Sport pilot rules in an LSA aircraft, in addition to performing basic maintenance:

    So, I am hopefully picking a fun plane that I can just inexpensively fly and maintain until I am no longer able to get in it (not an easy hop, by the way). Certainly less $ than a T-28 I hope. :)

    Another interesting feature being built into this plane is the ability to easily remove the wings for trailering. This may sound odd to many of you, but if you've ever owned a plane and think about it, it becomes a very attractive feature for many reasons.

    Just a little more background on why this aircraft was specifically chosen.
     
  9. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #34 snj5, Sep 24, 2009
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  10. Bob Parks

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    #35 Bob Parks, Sep 24, 2009
    Russ, it's details like this that ice the cake. Beautiful ! ! Like the board seat in the Pietenpol, the comment was usually, " THAT'S IT ?"
    That Camel seat will speak volumes about the airplane without saying a word.
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  11. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    #36 Bob Parks, Sep 24, 2009
    I have been thinking about the Camel with a radial instead of the rotary and I think that it will be a different animal without the gyroscopic precession with which to cope. Should be a fun and interesting machine. Having never flown anything like that I can only imagine what it was and what it will be.
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  12. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #37 snj5, Sep 24, 2009
    I've thought about it as well. I have not been able to track down a non-rotary engined Camel replica to hear first hand. It will certainly be interesting to fly with all of the mass centered right at the CG. I am thinking it will be a little nervous, and quite maneuverable. I am also predicting slow due to huge amounts of drag.
    Well, it was the goal to enjoy flying for flying and waft among the cloud strewn heavens listening to the wind's string symphony in the wires...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6PnKUEFX8g
     
  13. Bob Parks

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    #38 Bob Parks, Sep 24, 2009
    I know exactly what you are saying, Russ. My most enjoyable flying was in the older wire braced machines that could and would sing you a song if things were being done right and if not , they could howl and growl at you. I have written a blurb about it and I titled it "The Wind harps" and maybe someday some fool will want to publish it along with the other 15000 words that I have put down about the trail that I left. The sounds of the wind are captured by sail boats too and although not as pronounced as an airplane , they can also be quite pleasant. I never really felt alone while flying or sailing solo.
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  14. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #39 snj5, Sep 30, 2009
    Outfitting and parts searching.
    Found and bought an original Camel altimeter! Used on a Camel!
    Have found and ordered:
    replica Sopwith airspeed indicator, Sopwith stick grip, reproduction castings of Sopwith throttle quadrant and original Sopwith F.1 Data Plate - all from England.

    Well, I had to get a modern oil temp/pressure dual gauge. Safety first.

    Basket weaving continues apace on the seat.

    Am organizing to purchase streamlined flying wires, as used by the Brits in the Great War.

    More as it develops.
     
  15. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    #40 Bob Parks, Sep 30, 2009
    Lead on, Russ! Lead on!
     
  16. FarmerDave

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    #41 FarmerDave, Oct 1, 2009
    Bob,
    Please investigate the inexpensive self-publishing options out there and put me down as one of your first customers.

    Russ,
    You are a completely mad, and I want to be like you when I grow up.

    Dave
     
  17. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #42 snj5, Oct 1, 2009
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  18. Bob Parks

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    #43 Bob Parks, Oct 1, 2009
    What a great way to keep the ol' heart going and the brain bubbling along! Russ, you are having way too much fun dreaming up all this...but you have earned it. I envy you. I'm at a point now where there is much more string played out behind me and too little left ahead and if I don't stop looking at the trail I might back off the edge that's coming up somewhere. It would be enjoyable to be planning a project like the Camel.
     
  19. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #44 snj5, Oct 1, 2009
    This has been a dream I can clearly remember since I was a wee lad.
    It is amazing to try to make it so.
     
  20. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    #45 Bob Parks, Oct 1, 2009
    Even though i can't fly as PIC anymore or rebuild anymore projects , I have many many art ideas to do to keep me from playing in the streets. Who knows, I might even work up a Camel rescuing a flight of B-17's. Wait a minute......there might be something wrong with that idea. I'll have to think about that one some more. I'm also looking at some triplane stuff, too. Looking at that leather helmet brought up the same old memory of flying a Stearman in the winter when I was at Duke. Being a Florida boy, who used to fly them in a tee shirt, I could never find or don enough clothes to keep the cold from finding an opening somewhere. Anyway, we are all excited about your project.
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  21. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #46 snj5, Oct 1, 2009
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  22. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    #47 Spasso, Oct 1, 2009
    As Flounder from Animal House would say, "This is so cool!"
     
  23. Bob Parks

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    #48 Bob Parks, Oct 1, 2009
    I'm not familiar with the self publishing thing and I probably should be because several of the authors that I correspond with tell me of problems with editors and publishers. I appreciate your interest on that which I have commented and I will pursue the suggestion. My story has been read by several writers and they think that I should try to have it published but so far I have not been able to pursue it. I have been told that it is unique and interesting and unlike any of the early life of most younger people. I tried just about everything that came along and had fun doing it. I lay no claim to brave adventures in my eyes but growing up in the 20's and 30's without the fetters of restrictive parents I was able to taste a variety of things that were presented to me at the time. I swam in the Chesapeake when it teemed with crab that nipped at your feet. I lived on a defunct farm and survived the depression and watched Boeing Mod. 40's fly over with the first mail. Then we went to Florida and lived in a paradise on an island off the coast where I did all the things that a young boy should do. Then I went into the war for a while.
    I have talked too much on this forum but the good things come back to me too often.
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  24. jimpo1

    jimpo1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #49 jimpo1, Oct 12, 2009
    I read in Forbes about a self-publisher, the author funds some of the up front costs, and keeps most of the proceeds. Might be worth looking into.

    http://www.iuniverse.com/

    And Dave, wanting to be like Russ when you grow up is an oxymoron. :)
     
  25. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #50 snj5, Oct 12, 2009

    I guess I am going to have to improve my image as a solid pillar of society
     
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