Camera Experts (Need help) - Canon

Hey guys,
Sorry for yet another "Should I buy this camera" thread, but I could use the advice.

I am an amateur looking to get my first DSLR and I'm seriously thinking of buying the Canon Rebel Xsi - 450d camera from Ebay.
I came across 2 very good deals.
Can you guys please shed some advice on the pro's/con's of the two? (mainly the lenses).

http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-EOS-Digital-REBEL-XSi-450D-Camera-2-IS-Lens-8GB_W0QQitemZ140284828255QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDigital_Cameras?hash=item140284828255&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

http://cgi.ebay.ca/CANON-EOS-Rebel-XSi-450D-Digital-Camera-5-lens-SUPREME_W0QQitemZ130270326968QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDigital_Cameras?hash=item130270326968&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A15%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1309


I read a few reviews on cameras in general on the web and they are very positive for the 450D.
Is it a good buy or am I going to regret it?

I am looking to mainly replace my point and shoot. I am also very interested in shooting scenery, cars and landscapes as opposed to shooting sports, etc.
I don't know how much that matters in the grand scheme of things.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Regards,
Clyde

 

Canon XSI is a great starter D-SLR camera and you will not regret it!
That deal with 5 lenses i wouldn't say isn't good... that really depends if you would really need those 5 lenses and all that other stuff. If you got the XSI with the 18-55kit that would be good enough...

Here are some packages i found with great everyday lenses with the XSI.

XSI with 17-85mm http://cgi.ebay.ca/Canon-EOS-XSI-450D-X2-Digital-Rebel-17-85-IS-NEW_W0QQitemZ270307084091QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDigital_Cameras?hash=item270307084091&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1215%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

XSI with 18-200mm http://cgi.ebay.ca/Canon-Digital-Rebel-XSi-450D-SLR-Camera-18-200-IS-Lens_W0QQitemZ140280775849QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDigital_Cameras?hash=item140280775849&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1215%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1309

 

I think you should be more than happy with 450D. The only issue may be that many people expect the image quality to be better when they first start using a DSLR and many get disappointed with the results. You just have to remember you don't get the good image quality right out of the camera, but you have to work hard for it. I would recommend getting a good book on basic photography at the same time (if you don't have the knowledge already)

and I would probably stay away from those ebay sellers you posted. I wouldn't recommend those wide angle or telephoto converter lenses nor a cheap tripod or flashguns. And many of the accessories shown in one of the ads should come with the camera anyway, so I don't know why they are advertising them (which makes me feel they could be one of those sellers who try to sell them to you separately at higher cost).

 

Gemm, you are probably right about the 'extra' items being offered in the ads I posted.
I plan on taking a course or picking up a book, time permitting.

Marcel, thanks for the advice regarding the extra lenses.
I really only cared for the 2 lenses out of the 5 in my link. The 18-55mm for normal distance shooting, and the 55-250mm for long distance shooting.
I figured that for under $1000, i could have both those to practice and look to upgrade them in the future.

I'm glad you both confirm the 450D XSi being a good choice in hardware.

As far as I can tell, If I can pick up the lens + body for less than $1000, it's a deal.

Cheers,

Clyde

 

Try also the Nikon D40

 

or Canon Rebel XTi

 

Why would anyone get D40 with all the other nikon and canon's out now, D40 has only a 6.1MP.

If you are looking at the 18-55 and 55-250mm then a good choice would be the canon 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6... Its a all-in-one lens which produces same IQ. It's new on the market as well, just came out not to long ago.

 

It´s cheap and light weight...a D40 and a 18-70 would be a great choice...

Read this of the MP...

http://tech.uk.msn.com/features/article.aspx?cp-documentid=8354191

 

I am really sorry to yell but MEGAPIXELS DONT MATTER, NEVER EVER will they ever matter. Unless you are planning to print a billboard 6MP is plenty. I blew up 2 shots at 20x30 with my D40 they are clear as day. Don't fall for buying a D40x/D60 its a waste of money as the D40 is better, it has 2x the max shutter speed when using flash as the other 2 camera do. You can also pick one up very very cheap. One world of warning look at what kind of photography you want to do before you decide on a Camera. Do you want a camera that is very fast and has great optics at a cheap price get a Canon, do you want the absolute best picture quality for non-moving object, get a Nikon. I first had a D40 and ended up selling it and getting a Canon 40D for track days. If you have any questions between the 2 camera companies shoot me a PM I know the pros and cons of each. You mentioned you wanted a book, go to Borders and get "The Photography Bible" by Daniel Lezano, hands down the greatest photography book for beginners. Good luck with the search, if you have the money and you get the XSi don't bother with the kit lens you can get something much better at a cheaper cost.

 

Just joking around here, but perfect time for this picture. and yes I too learned megapixels don't matter in another newb thread created by yours truly.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

That guy were about 7 years younger and not asian that would be me whenever I hear that MegaPixels determine the quality of the picture. I think I am just going to create a 40MP camera that produces cell phone picture-like quality an make a million dollars, any investors?

 

Hi Chris, thanks for the insight.

I decided to reply here instead of by PM as I believe we would all benefit from the knowledge.

Essentially I will be using this camera for a little bit of everything. I do however have a great interest in shooting still scenery, but will need the camera to be versatile enough for random settings... safari's, people, etc.

From what I've been reading, Canon has a slight edge over Nikon when it comes to this "versatility". I'd be happy to be corrected if I am wrong.

Also, keep in mind that I am a "beginner" and price does come into play.
Lenses are replaceable after I practice and get the hang of it.

I'll check out the Book you recommended.

In the couple of links I posted, are the Lenses offered any good? I'm looking to budget myself to $1000.

Cheers,
Clyde

 

Since the day I started looking for my first DSLR, I noticed that in general Canon had more features. However I chose Nikon, because I hold my camera, and the fact that I can adjust things by feel and have a camera that fits my hands are important to me. Compare features on dpreview.com's side by side, consider what is important to you- Do I need to shoot 5 frames per second, do I really need live view etc. Then the most important part, go to the store and hold them in your hands. When I got my Nikon D80 in May, it felt just right, the Canon 40D felt big and chunky, but in July when I went to B+H photo in NYC, the much bigger Nikon D3 felt just great, because the ergonomics are very good. You will have your camera a while and holding it a long time too. I can't stress enough how important it is to just put the camera in your hands to see how it feels.
I would reccomend a D80 if you can find one still for sale as they are pretty much discontinued, or a D40. D40 would be great because it is extremely cheap in terms of DSLR's, and you said that speed/fps aren't very important to you.
Also, megapixels don't matter. Unless you are printing pictures that are as big as your wall.
And please don't buy a camera off eBay, only buy from reputable stores, such as B+H Photo, Adorama, Ritz, Calumet, and as a last resort Best Buy (Circuit City is in really bad shape econimically so they might not be there if your camera needs repair and you have a warranty from them.)
Thanks

 

I would agree with pretty much everything Ferrari250GTO said with a few exceptions. The one thing Nikon has over Canon is image quality, you just can't compare the 2 because Nikon will be sharper 95% of the time, with that said Canon does have more features and in my eyes better lenses cheaper, especially for low light. I agree on the ergonomics of the Canons the first time I picked up a Rebel over my D40 I could not stand it, it felt horrible, but my 40D is quite comfortable, though heavy. Also never buy from a chain camera store they give horrible prices its always 20% higher with them on pretty much everything. To give an example I ordered a lens last night that was $750 at Ritz, I got it for $625 from a Canon Authorized store on eBay and got another $187 back with the live.com cashback. I am always skeptical of eBay but with $187 back I thought it would be worth it this time. I used Amazon.com for my D40 and Beach Camera for my 40D because they were the cheapest that would take PayPal, I have heard bad things with them so I would always recommend using Amazon.com. I think that the D40 would be perfect for you as long as you can plan to switch teams after you find what you are shooting the most. I paid $500 for my D40 and sold it a year later for $350 which is not bad, I only have 1 other lens I probably lost another $100 on. $250 for using a camera to figure out what I really wanted to shot was worth it to me, I got some incredible pictures but I figured out I would do better with Canon for what I wanted and what I was shooting. I haven't used the XSi but it might be a great lens I haven't heard bad things so if you really want the versatility get an XSi, look into getting only the body and then getting a Tamron 17-50mm f2.8, everything I have seen it looks to be a great lens with great low-light capabilities. I was so close to buying one but I think that a full frame body will be in my future in 6 to 9 months and went with a different lens. I love my Canon but still praise my D40 since I learned everything I know on it, it just did not have the capabilities I needed but it will certainly do the job for a beginner, I really encourage you to get the book as it explains all the technical stuff very well, i.e aperture, shutter speed....

Good Luck

 

That really depends, Nikon and Canon are pretty much the same for IQ. That always depends which camera's you are comparing and what lens you have mounted on the body.
I use canon xti with 17-85 and am eaither going to switch to the 50D or if not NIKON D300. The D300 produces better colored images but this can be edited in the 50D settings... so eaither way i go i will be happy.

 

You might want to rethink the 50D it has been having some problems with very high noise in the upper ISOs that it shouldn't and people are saying Canon pushed the sensor too far with going to 15MP. I agree that the IQ is very similar but when I started shooting with my 40D and 28-135mm I had a much better result with my D40 and 18-55mm, bad example I know but still it shows what a beginner camera can do. You just don't see many sports shooters with Nikons, unless is all top of the line gear. I guess I am being very biased in what I am saying since I am placing my argument around sports but for a someone who doesn't plan to become a professional photographer it seems that Canon has an edge budget wise. In the case of sports I can have a dream set-up for $2200, for Nikon an equal set-up would be around $2700. It really depends on what you are looking to do, you say everything but after awhile I think you will find a niche that you will do most of shooting in and then you can decide what you need, right now I would spend as little as possible on a camera and glass and experiment and see what you like to do.

 

It's hardly that clear cut...


As was said above: get a camera that feels good to you.

Between Canon, Nikon, Sony and Olympus, the technical differences are pretty much negligible. Up until a few years ago, Canon dominated the image quality market. With the added competition, everyone has stepped up their game to the point where it's pretty hard to make a bad decision. All will produce reasonable (though maybe not professional) quality images when coupled with the right glass and USED RIGHT (eg don't crank the ISO under highly dynamic lighting and expect a low-noise image).

 

Avoid those super inclusive packages from Ebay like the plague..

I generally only buy camera gear from BHphotovideo.com and www.abesofmaine.com. However, I came across this the other day. I am not sure if you can get costco where you are from but this deal is much more usable then the ebay ones and much cheaper! http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11305081&search=xsi&Mo=0&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Sp=S&N=5000043&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=xsi&Ntt=xsi&No=0&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1

Assuming you are sticking with Canon.

I have a Canon 40D and I am gradually working on my collection of lenses. I chose Canon because a few friends and family bought into the system, which in turn makes my lens selection much wider.

 

OK, I couldn't be arsed to read all of this thread. But i did skim through it and saw the bit about the 5 lenses. Honestly, get it with one lens. I bought my XTi with the 17-40 f/4 L lens and then decided the kind of lenses i needed to add from there. Get the thing with the 100 dollar 50mm 1.8 and learn to use it first. From there youll have an idea if you want a longer lens or a wider lens. And the money you save for not getting that "crap" 18-55 kit lens can be put toward a more professional lens that will give you better image quality in the long run.

oh and who cares about mega pixels anyhow? If the pictures are going to live on your computer then youll be ok with the lesser pixels. If you are shooting for a magazine or something where cropping the image is going to happen, then having the mega pixels to fall back to if you got the composure of the shot wrong or it needs to be slightly larger.

 

How do you like your 17-40mm? Mine should be here later this week.

 

The kit lens with the XSI is an 18-55 IS. It's not great, but for the price of admission it gives you some flexibility to hold you over until your collection grows. When you get sick of the 18-55 or no longer need it, you can always dump it on POTN for a few bucks.

The price difference between the XSI body and XSI with 18-55 IS on BHphotovideo is $75. IMO the lens is worth $75 if anything you use it when you know the lens will take a beating. Regardless, if you are beginner, the 18-55IS is more then adequate to start out with.

Having used an extensive array of L glass, I am full aware of the work that good glass can do, but without general lighting knowledge, composition etc.. the pictures will be extremely clear crap. Compare some of my dad's pics to mine using his 100-400L. He knows nothing about the camera but has deep pockets. One day I hope he can settle down and use all of the gear he has.

 

you obviously don't crop any of your pictures. and "clear as day" is subjective, to say the least. megapixels in fact matter. If they didn't, manufacturers wouldn't make higher megapixel cameras and people wouldn't buy them. I started with the first digital rebel that came out and am now on the 5d. i will buy the 1d xxx as soon as i can and a lot of it has to do with megapixels. I am biased, but i like canon. their glass is plentiful and excellent. i don't know what to tell you about the model you are looking at because i haven't kept up with that end of the market. What i will tell you is to spend all your money on glass. buy the best only. bodies come and go, but good glass can last a lifetime.

 

But you should never use megapixels as a selling point to why you are buying a camera, unless you are semi-pro/professional photographer there is very little chance you will ever use those extra megapixels. To me there is a huge downside to the higher megapixel cameras, the companies are pushing the sensors too far to get those extra 3-5 MPs out and its degrading the image quality. The noise on a 50D is horrible compared to the 40D and its mostly caused by Canon pushing to 15MP.

 

the Nikon D90 just came out and is great for the price!!

 

I agree with you. It's funny when people start writing off 18-55 completely even though they've never touched DSLR before in their life. It is really how you use the lens. If they believe it's going to be a crap lens, then their image will obviously be crap. I've seen fantastic images taken with 18-55, sometimes even far better than images taken with L lenses; It just has to be used properly. So, as said above, it will be more than adequate to start with and it is well capable of taking great images.