Can E-FUELS / SYNFUELS save the Internal Combustion Engine? | FerrariChat
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Can E-FUELS / SYNFUELS save the Internal Combustion Engine?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by red passion, Mar 4, 2019.

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  1. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2012
    793
    Hockenheim, Germany
    #1 red passion, Mar 4, 2019
    Can E-FUELS / SYNFUELS save the Internal Combustion Engine?

    What do us as petrolheads and enthusiasts think about so called e-fuels (electricity-based fuels) which are synthetic fuels based on renewable energy?

    For that matter hydrogen is produced using renewable electricity and then combined with CO2, e.g. from industrial exhaust gases or directly filtered out from the air, to form a hydrocarbon with zero net greenhouse gas emissions. The outcome can be both gases and liquids which are not technically different than their conventional counterparts. They can even be used in classic cars and sold via the existing network of filling stations, and thus gradually blended into existing fuels.

    The interesting point is that those e-fuels are CO2-neutral as for their production the same amount of CO2 is added as later is emitted during the combustion process. So basically it is a closed loop. Moreover they (e-fuels/synfuels) can be modified to burn entirely cleanly.

    However problems occur due to high costs for production. Currently this is mainly because of the low-scale production process. When ramped up to industrial scale and combined with global sourcing it can become more competitive though. Detractors’ biggest argument against it is the huge amount of energy needed for production. Indeed the energy conversion efficiency is quite poor. This however should only be considered a real issue when input factors are depletable resources. With, in theory endless supply of renewable energy conversion efficiency is not necessarily the most suitable performance indicator for evaluating the technology.

    I am Interested what your thoughts are on that topic?
     
  2. Jaguar36

    Jaguar36 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 8, 2010
    1,130
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    #2 Jaguar36, Mar 4, 2019
    Why would you bother taking the electricity, and going through the fairly inefficient process of converting it into a liquid fuel, and then the very inefficient process of burning that fuel, when you could just store the electricity in a battery and use an incredibly efficient electric motor?

    Battery capacity and charge times are going to increase way faster than the cost of an 'e-fuel' is going to decrease.
     
  3. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,741
    #3 Mitch Alsup, Mar 4, 2019
    The problem with hydrogen is that it takes 14 Kcal/mole to liberate the hydrogen from the oxygen in water,
    and you only get back 4.9 Kcal/mole = 14*35% when running it through an ICE.
    The equivalent electric only vehicle is 30%-odd more efficient in energy efficiency that a hydrogen cycle ICE.

    No amount of hand waving can make this a cost effective way of running an engine--unless the electricity to do this is FREE.
    No power source (Electricity) can be FREE long term.
     
  4. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2012
    793
    Hockenheim, Germany
    #4 red passion, Mar 4, 2019
    The aspect of input energy is directly related to its availability which again is related to both location and time. Therefore a holistic sourcing approach would be needed.

    As said before one can expect that costs can be competitive if taken seriously.
     

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