Can Ferrari Still Win the Title? | FerrariChat

Can Ferrari Still Win the Title?

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by PhilNotHill, Jul 26, 2007.

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  1. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    CAN FERRARI STILL WIN THE TITLE?


    After two consecutive crushing wins for Kimi Raikkonen, it looked like Ferrari had the momentum going into the European Grand Prix and that McLaren would be under pressure to hang on to its championship lead.


    But then Fernando Alonso halted Ferrari's run with his hard-earned victory, and with Raikkonen retiring, McLaren's position appeared to be strengthened.


    Expert analyst Mark Hughes examines the events of the Nurburgring, and the current balance of power in Ferrari and McLaren's title fight.


    Fernando Alonso’s superb victory for McLaren-Mercedes at the Nurburgring was definitely a result against par.

    There is every evidence to suggest that a straightforward dry race would have seen Felipe Massa score a decisive victory.

    Taking the ‘what if?’ scenario a step further, had Kimi Raikkonen not suffered the leaking hydraulics system that put him out and it had been a straightforward dry race, all the best evidence indicates that it would have been a Ferrari 1-2 in the order of Raikkonen, Massa.

    But championships are not won on what ifs, and the stark reality post-Nurburgring (but pre- the Paris FIA hearing regarding ‘Stepneygate’ on Thursday) is that Massa is 11 points behind in his chase of the title and Raikkonen 18.

    They are big numbers to overcome with only seven races left.

    But all is not lost for Ferrari. At the same point last season Michael Schumacher was 17 points adrift of Alonso and were it not for that engine failure whilst leading at Suzuka would probably have secured the crown.

    But to claw back around two points per race on the McLaren drivers is realistically going to require Ferrari to win every grand prix from now – preferably with 1-2s.

    Can it be done? Can the Ferraris be faster and at least as reliable as the McLarens in what is left of the season?

    Since the aero update for Magny-Cours three races ago the Ferrari has been the faster car, though at the Nurburgring the margin was smaller.

    In fact, Alonso was only denied a likely pole for McLaren by a big oversteer moment through turns 5-6 that the sector times showed lost him 0.5s. Subtract 0.5s from his actual qualifying time and he would have been on pole by 0.2s from Raikkonen.

    However, Kimi was four laps heavier (around 0.35s worth at this track), so the Ferrari would still have been on a weight-adjusted pole regardless – by around 0.15s.

    Furthermore, this was on the soft, which was the faster tyre over one-lap. The harder tyre was much faster over a stint as it suffered far less performance degradation.

    On this tyre the Ferrari’s speed advantage over the McLaren was greater. This was shown quite decisively in the practice sessions but we never got to see a definitive playing out of it in the race.

    Between their changeover to dry-weather tyres on lap 12 and their refuelling stops on lap 37 (Alonso) and 38 (Massa), Alonso was struggling with not enough front wing angle because the adjusting tool had failed at his pit stop. It was during this period that Massa built up an 8.4s lead over the McLaren.

    Between then and when they made their unscheduled stops to change back to wet-weather tyres, Alonso – now with the correct wing setting – cut back into that gap, and had it down to 4.9s by lap 52.

    It was a wonderful charging effort from Alonso but Massa was adamant that he was just controlling his race from the front, that he had no need to have the lead out to any more than that with just eight laps to go.

    There was no reason to disbelieve him – he had it in the bag. Only the reappearance of the rain threw everything back up into the air.

    So we never did get to see a healthy Ferrari and McLaren going all-out on a dry track together. But Massa’s fastest lap of 1m 32.853s was significantly faster than anything posted by Alonso or Hamilton. Alonso’s best was a 1m 33.231s, when on low fuel but with his incorrect wing setting.

    We were denied seeing an Alonso low-fuel/correct wing lap, but the evidence from the 13 laps when he was on the correct wing and chasing Massa suggests his best would have been around 1m33s dead on low fuel.

    In the wet late stages Alonso was decisively faster, but there was a good reason for the severe vibrations Felipe complained of during this period: his rear tyres had turned on their rims.

    Severe tyre vibrations on a wet track is always going to seriously compromise performance so we weren’t comparing like with like in those exciting late stages when Alonso was hunting Massa down prior to passing him.

    Comparison of the wet early stage paints a different picture, one where the two cars were very evenly matched.

    And so far we have considered only Massa in the Ferrari equation. Raikkonen’s pace was disguised prior to retirement by his having to run behind the compromised Alonso (as a result of missing the pit entrance on the treacherous surface at the end of lap one).

    Throughout the practices and in the final qualifying session, Raikkonen appeared to have the decisive edge within Ferrari. His pole time was set with fuel for one more lap than Massa, yet was 0.328s faster.

    Had this been a straightforward dry race – and had he not suffered his hydraulics failure – there is every reason to believe Raikkonen would have walked it to make it three wins in a row.

    But the significant thing is that he did suffer that failure. Reliability is where Ferrari looks decisively weaker than McLaren-Mercedes, and where its title chances look most likely to flounder.




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  2. stevanford

    stevanford Karting

    Nov 5, 2006
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    I think they can but their reliability has to improve.
     
  3. FerrariF1v12

    FerrariF1v12 Formula Junior
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    thats the only reason Schumi didnt retire an 8 time World Champion.
    Schumi>Alonso.
     
  4. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Watch those pit departure peal-outs? ;)
     
  5. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    like someone said, if their reliability improves, they'll run away with the championship. they have the speed at the moment, and they're the care to beat out there, no doubt.
     
  6. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Yes they can and I hate to say this but the odds would be better if MS , FA or LH for that matter were in the red car... Kimi can do it if his luck holds.

    I will put my flame suit on now...:)
     
  7. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    well that's a huge revelation.
     
  8. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    don't need to Steve :D

    Kimi has proven in Britain and France, and in Germany last week he's hunger to win the WDC. i think, it can be a Ferrari 1-2 in the WDC, provided they get their reliability issues settled.
     
  9. Mr Payne

    Mr Payne F1 Rookie

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    Wasn't Alonso's car less reliable than Schumi's? If they had the same reliability wouldn't that have made Alonso's margin even bigger?
     
  10. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    and here we have people calling Massa useless in the rain.
     
  11. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    which season are u talking about?
     
  12. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Thanks for the back up Brian :)

    I will take it off then, I really want Kimi and Massa to nail it now..Pheww !!


     
  13. Mr Payne

    Mr Payne F1 Rookie

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    This would be 2006.
     
  14. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    no. i think, Fred's Renault was more reliable than Schumi's Ferrari in 2006. he retired just once in HUngary, IIRC.

    Ferrari, OTOH, had some early reliability worries in the early part of the season, at Malaysia, notably.
     
  15. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Yes: Once the FIA has handed out its penalty to McLaren.

    Expect a repeat of 1994 in the FIA vs Benetton/Schumacher case.
     
  16. ScuderiaRossa

    ScuderiaRossa Formula 3
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    If Ferrari and McLaren continue this current see-saw battle, then I don't have much hope that Ferrari can overcome the points deficit and win either championship. My question is whether Ferrari are really missing Ross Brawn with respect to reliability, or has the pace of technological advancement led to a very fragile balance between the need for more and more pace and pushing the failure (i.e. components, systems, etc.) limit?
     
  17. Senna3xWC

    Senna3xWC F1 Rookie

    Nov 30, 2006
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    This may be the biggest factor in my mind. I get the feeling that there is a considerable amount of turmoil within the Ferrari organization that is not being seen by the public due to Brawn's absence. For sure the Stepney affair would never have happened. I don't know if this is holding the team back?

    However, a 1-2 by Ferrari with both McLarens falling out of the race changes the title hunt pretty significantly. Ferrari is by no means out of the picture.
     
  18. ScuderiaRossa

    ScuderiaRossa Formula 3
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    I've been hoping for that McLaren double DNF, but even when LH is out of a race, he's in...
     
  19. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ
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    And where was this pointed out before ? ( In reguards to Massa's explanation that his rains had rotated on the rims )
    Or do you just like to make snide quips and nothing else ?
     
  20. DinoScuderia

    DinoScuderia Karting

    Apr 15, 2007
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    Can Ferrari do it? YES

    Will Ferrari do it? Now that is the question :)

    I am still hopeful.
     
  21. Tobias

    Tobias Formula 3

    May 22, 2004
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    Did Kimi really suffer a hydraulics failure, or is that just a front to cover what looked like to be fuel starvation?
     
  22. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ
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    If its a fuel starvation problem then it looks worse.
    The mechs could have pushed him to the pits to refuel.
    And their strategy was seriously flawed.
     
  23. Brakefade

    Brakefade Formula Junior

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    +1

    Also, if Ferrari wins both championships this year it will be a very iced cake, with Mcl cheating and all.
     
  24. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    what's that meant to mean?
     
  25. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

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    Yes. They can. Ferrari should stay on course and follow the spirit of its greatest champion of the recent years, Michael Schumacher, as long as there is a mathmatical chance, to never say die and never let your opponent unravel you, no matter what they do. They can't control what others do, just concentrate on the job at hand and do their best, that's all any true Tifosi will ask. And just think how sweet it will be for Ferrari/KR/FM when they do win the titles for 2007. Forza Ferrari!!!
     

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