Hey all ; I wasn't sure what thread to put this in, so I figures since it was racing related, I would throw it in here....(moderators feel free to move it you need to...) This is a serious question..... I am a huge F1 fan....and have been since I can recall. I can appreciate that F1 drivers, (for the most part...) are streets ahead in terms of driving ability that I am, and I know that if I tried an F1 car, I would embarrass myself beyond belief......so I recognize the skill and talent involved there.... The other night, Speed had a sort of Bio / Special on Don Garlits. I watched a bit , and as I have absolutety ZERO interest in drag racing, did other stuff while it was on.....at the end they had a few people within the sport say what a "genius" he is, and how he was bar none, "the finest drag racer ever", and had "more skill and talent than any other drag racer......" OK, fine.....but here is my question..... What skill or talent is involved in drag racing ? Granted these guys must have cojones the size of coconuts, but is this not a case of point and squirt? I mean....don't you just strap yourself in and hang on ? It seems to me that it is all power, and the driver just keeps it straight, and is really a passenger ? It isn't as if they pass anyone, or have to get an apex just right . Please enlighten me....I have an open mind, and would really love to know if I am missing something...... hps
I think if you were to have watched the show you would understand what was meant. Don is responsible for the current form of rear engine dragster. He came out with it at the Winter Nationals in Pomona, in I believe, 1972. There is a lot more to do than to just "hang on" to one of those cars. If you get a chance, catch the show again. Rick
Like many sports, excellent 'hand to eye' is required to be succesful! Remember they are launching off a Christmas Tree of lights and split second resonses are required........ it's pretty technical as well as dangerous! I think they have to work WAY too much on the engines, as they are only built for one or two runs.... At least in road racing it has to go 24 hours! LOL!
I have never drag raced (well not officially) but all things considered it is not as trivial as it seems. There is a delicate balance of traction vs. tire spin, a nack for chaning gears in time to get the most out of the engine and not blow it up... I don't know I would think anyone can become a good drag racer if practiced enough but can anyone become an F1 ace if he was a good road racer. F1 is just the ultimate in driving and control, cream of the crop make it to F1 just to find out they are not good enough and they get tossed out... There is just no comparason.
Back when Don was racing, he built the car, built and tuned the engine, drove it on and to the track. Todays drivers only touch the steering wheel.....
I drag raced for over 25 years - although not Top Fuel. I followed it for much longer - about 35 years (about as long as my F1 habit!) Old Dyno Don had what a lot of the top drivers in any series have, that ability to somehow get that little bit extra out of the car to get the win. For example: If he knew he was down on horsepower or in a lesss than desirable lane, he would cut the perfect light, or make the perfect shift, or find the perfect part of the track to put the power down, or the right fuel mix - it goes on and on. Not unlike Brawn asking Michael to shave a half second a lap off to make a pit stop pass - he somehow manages to do it. The real estate may be diferent, but the unnatural ability is the same. His genious in design and safety have saved many a life over the years too. Also a super nice guy that has helped many along the way, including standing up for and encouraging Shirley Muldowney (sp?) to be the first girl to take it to the "boys". He deserves all the glory they can heap on him! Jim
Thanks guys !! I think I see waht you mean.....I appreciate his contribution to design and safety, but I gotta admit...it looks as though they are just hanging on the the steering wheel....do they actually shift gears ? Is it via clutch, or semi auto, or sequential,or what..? Am I wrong that it is really a matter of timing the launch, and then keeping the wheels straight ? Cheers !! hps.. (ps...ya gotta love the level of knowledge on this board...no? )
The most popular tranny for years was the old GM automatic with only two forward gears.......only one shift in a quarter mile...the newer cars ....no idea. My gf's got two bros still running...one in rails and the other in a pro stock fuelie, IIRC. The other thing is, that I'll take John Force's wise cracking comments over the PC sanitized NASCAR boys or even the oh so serious guys of the current F1 group.........I miss Gerhard Berger's personality, or James Hunt's even more!
Driving in a fundamental sense is just controlling acceleration(+ or -). That is controlled through braking, throttle and steering...
Assuming you can get the F1 car moving from a standstill, and handle the G's, and braking,....yes, you maybe right.....however, I think most of us agree that handling race cars at or near the limit, be they F1, CART, Top Fuel, NHRA, etc...is beyond most of our skill levels.... ...except NASCAR of course.....my 5 year old could do that.....(wink, wink..) hps
Several years ago Top Fuel went to high gear only, with clutches designed to slip in a progressive manner to actually lower the torque to the rear wheels during the launch. As speeds increase the clutches grab better until it becomes a locked unit at the top end. It's all controlled pneumatically(!)
I never could understand why someone would want to spend a full day fussing with a car (an engine mostly) just to drive it four or five times at 6 seconds each? I can understand the skill and talent it takes to "cut a good light" and don't take that away from the best in the sport, but most people who have driven in the snow have the skills it takes to pilot a drag race car down the track.
Yup, you are right - but I will beat you to the other end every time! And I also think we all have the skills to pilot an F1 car - just not very good. Do not discount a race series because of what it looks like on the outside. Golf looks pretty easy too! ;0) Anybody remember Danny Ongais? (Boy, I'm dating myself now!) Let me give you a quick timeline: 1960 Hawaiian Motorcycle Champ 1960's numerous NHRA Championships in Fuel, Alcohol, and Top Fuel 1965 Awarded NHRA's drag license #1 1965 First man to do 200mph on a European track 1969 set 269 World Land Speed Records at Bonneville! 1970's ran Champ Cars (11 lifetime starts at Indy) 1976 ran F5000 1977-78 ran Penske and Shadow in F1 1970's and 1980's ran numerous Sportscar series including 24 hr LeMans and Daytona 1998 Last Indy race at age 58 started last and finished 7th. My point? When asked what was the most difficult series he raced and he replied without hesitation, "drag racing". I remember this guy getting SOOOO much crap from the Indy car drivers (Unser, Foyt, Rutheford, Andretti) about being a straight line guy and does he even know how to turn the wheel, etc., etc. He became one of the most respected drivers in the series bringing his "On the gas Ongais" nickname with him. Granted, this was a different time with diferent machinery, but I think it proves out my previous post. The good ones have that unnatural ability. On another note. I mentioned this in a previous post. The reason i like the "old" drivers of the 50's, 60's, and even the 70's is that they drove ANYTHING they could get their hands on. And they were DAMN good at it. Can't say the same for the kids today. Grandpa is going to shut up now... Jim
Remember that not all racing has a per-car budget of (pinkie in mouth) one hundred billion dollars. Drag racing built up around people who were trying to get the most out of engines that weren't (in those days) mapped by computer. It was more of a "mechanic's" venue than a driver's one. We can't all be Michael Schumacher. But most people could participate in local club racing -- drag, rallye, open track days ... provided you can avoid sneering at low-budget racing. It's a lot easier to appreciate low budget racing when the budget is coming from your own pocket.
The Flyin Hawaiian! I'll always remember that nasty wreck he had at Indy, with the leg dragging, etc. He was one of the great faces/characters of Indy to me when I was growing up.
Yeah Jack, he was (obviously!) one of my favs too! And i will never forget that wreck he had at Indy and the pics from it just send shivers. It is interesting that in his last race at Indy (at 58) he was subbing for the driver that was killed in qualy......oh that's terrible, I can't think of his name. But because it was a driver change, he had to start from the back of the grid to finish 7th! Danny was a great racer and a great guy on top of it. His love for racing was unmatched. I remember in 1970 (I think it was...) he was driving Mickey Thompson's Mustang Funny Car. It was unique in that he was running a punched out Ford 427sohc motor against the very well established and (somewhat) reliable Hemi motors built by Pink and Black. Anyway, that poor motor would end up in his lap in pieces after every 4 or 5 runs - but that was the only way the other guys could beat him! And he could not wait to get back out there and do it again! He just never got down! And you got the feeling that even if he drove a Pinto out there, the other guy would red light! Jim shiver!
I think it was in '96, actually, when he subbed for Scott Brayton. He had qualified at over 230mph or something crazy like that, and then died practicing. That had to be some feat stepping into a situation like that one. Not too many drivers could pull it off, nor would too many be asked!
I've tried both drag racing and road racing on an amatuer level of course and i have to say they are totally different in terms of the skills you need. That being said a driver that has a great feel for the car would excel in either form of sport just because of the fact that you have a better understanding of what the car is doing than the other guy whether it's standing start acceleration or braking corning and the like. I do agree though it seems kinda a waste of time to be screwing with a car for that long for a 6 second blast. It's kinda like premature ejaculation.........: )
I'm just a lurker from the BMW camp...but I recently asked a similar question on one of our local boards. Mine was more along the lines of 'When does drag racing get difficult...if at all' I thought these two replies were worth sharing as they helped capture some of the 'thrill' of drag racing written by some good 'ole Souther boys with 7-8second drag cars. The following night I watched some 'pro-stock' drag racing on ESPN2 and actually enjoyed it a great deal more once I knew what was going through some of the driver's heads. :shrug: Oh and lets not forget Top Fuel cars have incomprehendable amounts of power... on the order of 8000hp or so. 0-60mph in <1 second.
