Can you ever REALLY drive these things?

Let's suppose that you buy a reasonable vintage driver, say a 330 GTC. You know it has about $15,000 worth of work waiting right away from its PPI, and since you have been educated on these things, you figure there is another $15,000 to be found in the next 6 months.

So, you get the car and fiddle with it and do all the things you can find, and you get it where it starts up and you learned just how to press the accelerator according to how hot the engine is, so you can get it cranked every time. you are handy so you do a lot of the mechanical stuff to it and you get to know the systems pretty well.

And you learn how second is a little stiff for the first 10 minutes and how 1st is non-synchro, and you drive it a lot of 15-30 mile trips.

So you have it for a couple of years and you really get to know all its creaky traits and can sense a lot of problems even before they really happen.

Does there ever come a time that you can really expect one of these old cars to be dependable enough that you would trust it to do a real 300 to 600 mile trip on a semi-regular basis, or is the best you can expect a car that's fun for shortish local runs through the twisties?

Why I ask is that I had a 1965 230SL in the late 1980s when I lived in Galveston, and although I had that car for several years, I could never work up the courage to drive it to New Orleans. It was just quirky enough that I could never really trust it.


Not that I'm still looking....well.....

 

YES.

I drove my Daytona 600 miles to New Orleans for the FFQC. The trip down was in a downpour, very hard rain most of the trip. Once there, we drove it all over town to all the events. I saw 245kph on the drive to the track. We cruised at 200kph for most of I10. At No Problems Raceway, I flogged the crap out of it every session I could go out. We won a Gold at the concourse event. We drove it home another 600 miles.

Two weeks go by. I have not even washed it yet. I go into the garage, fire it up and take it for a 45 minutes drive. Once warmed up, I always drive it pretty hard. The car loves it. Honestly, the harder you drive it the better it runs, shifts, brakes and handles, this car was designed to DRIVE.

All this driving and fun.... ZERO mechanical issues or problems.

Malcomb drove his Daytona to New Orleans from San Diego. Then he drove from NO to Atlanta because he has some east coast stuff to do and I presume he drove it back across country home. The Daytona is a ROAD EATER.... fantastic road trip car.

So you know my opinion, a vintage Ferrari makes a great DRIVER!


Terry

 

Uro,

I drove my 330 all summer with no problems - several thousand miles.

Regards,

Art S.

 

You guy's have more balls than I do. I was raised on XKE's and learned early that if you take the Jaguar on a trip plan to fly home without it and go back for it later. Unfortunately this way of thinking has carried over to my new life with Ferrari's.

 

Once well sorted, yes you can. I have had many clients over the years that did and do.
But a couple of things to remember, even when well sorted it is a collection of 35-40 year old parts, Remember all the little things you are always taking care of to keep it right, and develop a set of tools (lots of multi purpose things if poss) and spares (points, condensors, fuses, wire, bulbs , crimp connectors, hose clamps, tape , glue , gum etc ) to keep in trunk.
Something else to remember to bring, State of mind. Driving one of those somewhere is not about getting there, it is the journey. Trips can be an adventure. We are spoiled, when that car was new you could not count on getting there uneventfully each and every time.

 

Yes. It can be done.

I bought a Sunbeam Tiger 3 years ago. It was a great looking car that had not been driven much.
I wanted a nice car to drive.

I got it and started driving in around town and back and forth to work several days a week (12 mile round trip)
In the first 6 months I was towed home twice, broken throttle cable and bent clutch slave cylinder mounting bracket.
I rebuilt the brake and clutch master cylinders because they were leaking.

At the 7 month point my wife and I drove the car from San Diego Ca to Mammoth Lakes. A trip across the Mojave desert in June with the top down.
On this trip I learned that I was marginal in the radiator department and I probably had a bad head gasket. I added water a lot but the Tiger got us there and back.
Heads off, found one was cracked, procure used head, do valve job reassemble. New radiator.
Car is starting to purrr. Rebuild the shifter to eliminate annoying rattle.
Driving the car 5 to 6 days a week and Loving it.
Notice I am loosing fluid from the brakes again. This time it is the power brake booster, than you very much mssrs Girling.
For the past two years the car has not left me stranded, AAA is wondering why I don't call any more .
I have driven it to Lake Tahoe once and Monterey CA twice.

Just recently the clutch throwout bearing started making noise, I am going to go in there over Xmas break.
The short answer is they are never done, but they can be reliable enough to thoroughly enjoy.

Based on my experience I would recommend doing piecewise deep dives into the mechanicals.
That means pick a subsystem, brakes for example, and rebuild/replace every single component until it is like new.
Move on to the next, like fuel system. Pull the tanks and get them flushed/derusted and replace ALL rubber lines, new fuel pump.

Tackle one subsytem a quarter and in a couple of years your car is bulletproof, well almost. Best of all the car is never more than a couple of weekends away from running.

Erich

 

Depends on the car, I guess. Having never owned a Ferrari - I can not really tell about them - but my current humble vintage driver (A 1972 BMW 2002) is as reliable as they come. The old girl has never been restored and is still good enough to be a daily driver (not that I use it like that). I would have no problems jumping in her and driving cross-country tomorrow.

My Alfa Romeo or Citroen or Jeeps on the other hand, well...

The Citroen and the Jeeps - I can understand, they were cheap, no money buys. The Alfa on the other hand (A Spider) really should have been more reliable than what it was.

Finally, don't even get me started on Lotus 7s.

 

No problem. When I bought my 365GT 2+2, after a few months of driving around town my then-girlfriend (now wife) and I got in and drove it from Portland to Monterey for the concours (we didn't enter, needless to say!). Drove home. No issues-- probably 2,000 miles round trip, at least.

This summer, 11 years later, we drove it on a vacation which amounted to about 500 miles around western Oregon. No problems. I have also taken it on other trips around the state, and so far, so good.

I don't know that I would take it if I felt that I absolutely had to be somewhere on time, but all in all I probably would. The car would do fine, but my stress level might go up a bit.

For me, taking my F-car on vacation or longish trips is one of the most enjoyable uses!

 

Once sorted, there is no reason not to use them. My 365 will be my only driver when I am home for Christmas. Relax, enjoy.

 

Over the last 10 years I've put 25,000 street miles on J6.
I put 2000 miles on SL71-32 this summer.
I'm taking 0846 and 002C to the Historic Targa Floria next June.
My Duesey has 65,000 miles on the odometer.
As Terry did I drove J6 to the track at the FQC running behind the Police Car at 165mph.
Sal and Jesse drove 002C to the track running over 100 mph. (that puppy is a 1947)
Joe drove SL71-32 to the track and I drove her back and through the French Quarter on Sunday.
None broke down.
They do receive constant attention BUT they can be used.

 

Totally agree! Although my GTC has so far never failed a trip of 300-600 miles, it could happen. But that's why they invented TripleA towing, and Hurtz rentacars. **** happens to old cars! As Brian said: it's the journey!

(also, as Erich says; do everything to the car, slowly, over time)

If you're spoiled, get a 360/550 and don't worry, be happy.

james

 

Ferraris are a bit different than other vintage cars, IMO it depends on the Ferrari, some cars made on Mondays or after too much wine after lunch always have problems and are unreliable.

The engines are the strongest parts of a Ferrari next to the transmissions and are very reliable if properly taken care of, another benefit from competition is the cars needed to be reliable and fast to win so Ferraris have that built into them, so I see no reason to not drive one on extended trips, the weak areas on Ferraris have always been fragile bodywork so the risks are to damaging it vs a mechanical failure.

 

Yes, it can be done, but the question is why would you want to? Driving a classic car is like enjoying a slice of chocolate cake. You have it on occasion and you look forward to it. And when you have it you take it in slowly and savor each bite. It is not like cramming a big mac in a hurry which is what driving 600 miles would be.

I suppose 600 miles would be fine on a scenic and uncrowded highway, as long as you drove no more than five hours a day.

john

 

I have a beat up 365 GTS - Faded top,bad paint, torn carpet, etc. Its was tuned up around 2001 at Patrick Ottis and has unknown miles. I've had parts that are consumable replaced -- brake pads, clutch (replaced original) and some hoses.

It is driven on a regular bases and I see no problem taking the car on long distant trips or daily use around town. I am considering painting the car and cleaning it up but am struggling with the advantages of having a beat up Ferrari. Because I don't care if it gets scratched and find that the reduced flash makes the car a little less visible for average use (It doesn't get bothered in parking lots).

I have never had a break down in the last 4 years. I hate to admit that on one occasion I thought that my oil gauge was broken because it was registering very low pressure - I was sure that the oil was full so continued to drive the car for days. Took the car to the mechanic for gauge repair and he found that the oil was to low to register. He added oil and the car had no problems.
My experience and assessment is that the cars are very reliable. I see on Ferrarichat that most are talking about fixing up their cars. Maybe that's the problem with some --the cars need to be driven and beat a little. Drive them, leave'm alone and the cars are reliable.

 

I wouldn't think of droning for 600 miles on the slab, more of a Blue Ridge Parkway type thing.

Overall, you folks have been encouraging, thanks!!

 

Drive the damn cars and they will be more reliable, not less. Speak with anyone who has mileage on their car and I bet they don't break down if the maitenence is kept up. That is the key doing the mait, it's preventative so more folks don't want to spend the $$$ to keep it up to date, if they can't do it themselves.

They aint investments(to me), there cars. Buy pictures or artwork to look at. Sorry for the rant, just hate to see cars sit, it just kills them.

 

I have owned my 330GTC 20 years this month. It has never left me stranded. It has been on many 200-300 mile trips and a few 600-1000 mile trips. It has been driven hard on the track and off. I also have owned a 365GT2+2 for the last 5-1/2 years and it too has never left me stranded. I would not hesitate to drive either one of them anywhere.

 

Like Art, I drove my 330 all summer with no problems. Older Ferraris are remarkably reliable cars. If everything is in decent shape, you should have no problems.

Furthermore, if you carry the spare parts that Rifledriver lists (minus the gum), you are pretty self-sufficient. Even if you can't make a repair yourself, almost any garage in America can do it for you. That's one tremendous advantage "vintage" Ferraris enjoy over newer ones: the older cars have carbs, distributors with points, and electronic-free wiring, whch is all stuff that's understandable to any competent mechanic.

Also, don't assume that you're going to have to put that much money into the car. I certainly haven't.

--Matt

(By the way, does a 330 GTC really not have synchromesh on first?)
(And what's the answer to the puzzler in your profile, Clifford???)

 

Well the one I'm......(not)....looking at doesn't seem to! Ha!

Puzzle? Check your PM for answer.

 

Car Talk had a similar question posed some time ago. Seems someone wanted a reliable Ferrari. The car talk response was that the older ones are pretty reliable.

Plus they look great.

 

I still haven't made that first trip. I've put 3,000 miles on the 330 2+2 since it got to Dallas Mid-March '03, and 3 or so months of the time in the first 9 months was shop or taken apart in the garage time. In the year that it's been a regular, mechanically sorted out, get in and drive car it's been as reliable as my Toyota 4Runner, though definitely much more ritualistic on the starting procedure and more attention demanding on the road--it never lets you forget the fact that you ARE driving and WHAT you are driving--I had to go to an office tower yesterday and the parking garage made it very clear what kind of noise my exhaust system makes . I've done a fair amount of driving but no round trips longer than 50 miles. I'm planning a trip to Fort Worth to look at some parts another Vintage owner over there has; thats probably about 100 round trip, and then to Austin, 400 round trip, and then maybe Kansas spring '05 for a wedding, 700 round trip. I will take a complete tool kit, tire pump, and spares, and have both AAA and Hagerty Protection network in case of a major breakdown; I'm not expecting it but will be ready.

 

Thanks for mentioning that, Jon. It made me remember this:
http://www.cartalk.com/content/columns/Archive/2000/January/09.html

 

Thanks for the link. I enjoy reading the Click and Clack stuff.

 

I bought Steve Tillack his very first Ferrari at a sports car auction (the first such?)- a 365GT 2+2 - with no test drive and no PPI, and then drove it home from Chicago to LaLa. It was a delightful trip, as I stopped to chat with a number of F people along the way.

The local FOC used to go, en masse, from LA to Las Vegas, as fast as we could. I remember CHP road blocks, but I don't remember breakdowns.

Fazzaz are STRONG CARS! Don't be afraid to drive 'em!