Canada: no steps to plug the Brain Drain??

I had lunch with Stockwell Day and was asking him about what politicians are doing to stop the brain drain as Canadians like myself are leaving for the US to enjoy the greater economic opportunity.

Nothing, was what he replied. Actually he noted that the embarrassing push for tax rebates ended up being a $19 per year credit, which he noted would be good for a dozen small coffee/hot chocolates at Timmy's.

He said that basically the government's official stance is that people will stay for "the Canadian way" and "Canadian values." Well if I wanted to (which I don't BTW), I could still be a liberal in the US and enjoy the average of 30% more disposable income for the same work. But the lost economic opportunity of Canada doesn't directly translate into quality of life, and that is the issue. There are TONS of places in the US that offer pretty much the same "quality of life" as Canada - or better!

I love Canada, so it hurts me to see them employ such backwards policy that encourages the perpetuation of mediocrity in performance and achievement by retarding the rewards for productivity and progress. Basically, if you want to be joe schmoe middle class or lower, Canada is your place to be coddled, placated and not pushed beyond a comfort zone. The push for equality and stability has been successful in creating a young generation of visionless masses who are not pushing innovation IMO. If you want to be successful, America really is where you are rewarded for it. As to not offend the successful Canadians here, I'll note that some youngsters are making it - but I think of the wealth distribution in Canada to be like that of Moscow: there's a small cluster of *very* wealthy (Lambo of Toronto clients), and the wealth curve drops bigtime from there.

As a final note, the reason I care about these issues, aside from being a Canadian citizen/escapee, is that I think frequently about things that I could do to help the pitiful local economy of my hometown and I am confounded trying to find something Canadians can produce or provide better, faster or cheaper than Americans. And this doesn't even bring up the migration of jobs to Asia from all of North America.

 

Very well put, and I agree 100%.

 

Very well said.........the blandness of opportunity here is overwhelming...........my wife thinks it's pathetic actually.........and she's from a third world country (Brasil)...........heh. Many of the people here that I know from Brasil (50 or so) say Canada is not what they were told it was by the immigration authorities and that they are actively/eventually looking to relocate.

 

Very well said and too unfortunate. Does anyone see any viable way to change this? Any ideas would be interesting at the least...

 

The only way I see is (big, like reducing federal to 35% and GST/PST to at least 10% and not a menacing 15% - Americans puke when I tell them nearly 50% income taxes and *then* 15% at the till) tax cuts and deductions for small to mid-sized businesses - and perhaps the loosening of benefits/union requirements. If I can't keep what I'm earning I will do business where I can keep more and pay out less. When I innovate and create production I want financial rewards, plain and simple.

Seriously though Keith, "bland" is the perfect word for the young worker market in Canada. I grew up in Southern Ontario in an area with stable education and plenty of university accessibility, yet so few of my classmates went and such a slim percentage of anyone has a "professional" career. My closest friends from Canada who are in their mid-20's, 3 are college dropouts working menial jobs, one graduated police academy and works in a pet shop, other cousin is mgr at KFC, the list goes on and on.

Maybe it's that the Americans I've interacted with are more motivated because I know many of them from college/grad school, but it seems a healthy chunk of Americans even if not formally educated are still working for some goal, and not just a 3 bdrm, vacation in Dominican Republic and a meager retirement.

Come on, what other country's biggest technical advance they still brag about was a bloody cancelled airplane program. How many documentaries can they make about it? What will Canada have to show for in the upcoming decades, except for lumber, minerals and fresh water!?

 

Sculpted, race-inspired components and bodywork for your exotic car.

What else?

 

This example is exactly what started this entire tumble. Canada after the second world war was considered a country with great growth potential. We had so many young and inovative people in this country who wanted to stay in this country. The Arrow project was just one example of this . But the government was not behined its own people. Yes the project had massive cost over runs and the RCAF was not impressed with the turn around time of the aircraft etc..but what the government failed to realize, was that it would put an end to an industry that had the potential to be a world leading. They could have seen the project as an investment in the future for the growth of Canadain indusrty in the technological feild. Many of the the people that worked on the AVro program went to the states and became part of the team that put a man on the moon. (Make no mistake. The US had a shopping list of the people they wanted after the cancelation of the project.)

This obviously did not happen..and from that point on the real greats of this country have had to travel south to find any support. Just look at Alexander Grambell. He was a canadian who took his invention south to a country who would get behined it and offer support. We have become so used to being considerd second best at anything we do and it has become a real problem. Many just to seem to think its not worth the effort to try and do anything in this country because it is so difficult to get any interest up, in anything that is Canadian. They also look at the the stand point of taxes. People do not want to work themsleves to the bone, only to give 50% of their earning to the governemt, and then also get taxed another 15% on anything we buy! I want out of this hole also..but right now its not possiable. I love my country but damn they make it too hard to live.

 

I should be prime minister. I would be a kick ass primeminister.

 

Which, I should mention, is available at www.vsrautomobiles.com !

 

Hehehe, speaking of which....you got any cool banner's I could use for my site? That would help.

Cheers,

Vasco.R

 

You can choose one of these:
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43572&page=3&pp=20

The fun begins at post #55

 

The question that has not been asked:

Stockwell Day?

 

He came to the law school to give a few small presentations for some different clubs. I got invited to have lunch with him and a few other students, then I went to a presentation he held on human rights in Canada and their foreign policy towards it, with a few dozen students.

 

Where are the pix?

How's the family?

 

Hmm, I didn't take any pics... I'm sure I'll meet with him and his wife again sometime though. They were super nice. He was very approachable and was quick on his feet when being drilled by Liberal Cdn LLM students... although a few weren't being that respectful and were basically scoffing at him. He's also pro-Israel, and one of his speeches was co-sponsored by the Harvard Alliance for Israel, so some of the other Cdns were automatically put off, since we seem to have a handful Iranian and other ME immigrants here from Canada (and others who might be pro-Palestine). Not that he's not used to that type of scowls I'm sure.

Family is great - my wife and The Boy are coming home from a visit to her parents right now, but they're having big snow in Cleveland and she's delayed. Here's a pic I took last week:
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Just because you know of a few slackers, doesn't mean the whole country is like that. I know many people in their mid-20's who are entrepreneurs, lawyers, investment bankers, etc...Canadians constantly groan about taxes, but then who on earth doesn't? As Oliver Wendell Holmes once said, "Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society."

People love to whine, no matter what they are or aren't getting. The Saudis have no taxes at all, and yet they cry that the government doesn't give them enough of an allowance (Saudis get money from the government just for being citizens).

As for Americans, I would say income disparity there is much worse in Canada. You have the ultra-ultra-rich followed by the pretty rich, followed by the suburban indebted who have a negative net worth their entire lives, followed by the homeless. I went to Detroit and it felt like I was in a third-world country. Eventually American will become a country of the haves and the have-nots, if it isn't already, and you know the type of civil strife that creates.

Taxes are not the sole reason for brain drain. The main reason is that the US is a larger market than Canada. I know, I have my own business. Having a 1% market share in Canada would make me comfortable, but having a 1% market share in the US would make me very wealthy.

Another reason for the brain drain is that Canadian banks are so incredibly conservative. Mark my words, once the government opens the banking sector to allow foreign banks to do business domestically, the landscape will be dramatically altered.

The Canadian goverment has to take credit for having an open immigration policy. Skilled workers, wealthy individuals, and even manual laborers are so valuable for the economy. I know so many people that have invested millions in Canada just so they could get citizenship. Many have stayed on and built thriving businesses. Most have contributed significantly to the economy by creating jobs, moving their assets to the country, buying property, etc...

I could go on and on about this topic, but I'm tired and have to wake up in 5 hours.

 

You feel guilty about selling yourself for more money so you are putting down the system. You are part of the problem.

 

The Canadian goverment has to take credit for having an open immigration policy. Skilled workers, wealthy individuals, and even manual laborers are so valuable for the economy. I know so many people that have invested millions in Canada just so they could get citizenship. Many have stayed on and built thriving businesses. Most have contributed significantly to the economy by creating jobs, moving their assets to the country, buying property, etc......

This is a joke right..........??? People who invested money to get citizenship did so out of a self serving desire to get out of areas where they thought they would have no future due to governmental change.....so now that HK for example isn't going to implode under the communist regime in Beijing many of the Asians I know who moved here are actively going back home because........in so many of their words that I have heard so often......."Canada sucks".......I have two good friends, one of whom I used to work with that moved back to Shanghai after 5 years here.......they were professionals......perfectly fluent in language and culture.....but their noses could smell the stench and high taxation......(their biggest gripe).

My wife immigrated here from Brasil two years ago........she's one of the top 5 physiotherapists in that country with 20 years of experience and an absolutely amazing resume.........HRDC was after her to move here before she even met me when she visited here a while back in the late 90's......do you think she has her credentials recognized here yet after two years ??? It's a foockin' joke man......the unionized and socialised work whole system is set up to dissuade and make it as difficult as possible for foreign professional workers of all occupations to do their jobs here.......in her words........the liberal government and Canadian embassy foreign staff are all lairs and are perpetrating a fraud on immigrants around the world.

We won't be retiring here in ten more years (I am only 44)..........I cannot wait to burn my Canadian passport and everything it stands for. It's too bad I was born on the wrong side of the 49th parallel.

Liberals are the pallbearers of societies.

 

Does that mean you won't be collecting your pension and everything else your entitled to when you retire? because if you do THAT REALLY SUCKS!

 

Correct........I won't be collecting nothing from "Kanaduh"......the entitlements that people have been brainwashed to believe are valuable are quite frankly worthless today in real dollar terms and will in all likelyhood be non-existent when I am 65. "Kanaduh" is nothing more than a third world country masqeurading as a first world one......go live in a third world country for a while and you will see what I mean. My wife and I own property in Brasil and I have lived there extensively over the last 5 years.......

And.....if these "benefits" (LOL...what a word) are still around at that time the fact that they still exist will be politically driven and not actuarily driven.

I figure by bailing out of this socialist sh*thole early I WILL NOT end up paying upwards of a further one million in taxes over my remaining 20 year working life........that's a million dollars taken out of socialism's coffers......and to me that is worth more than any other small victory I could ever hope to garner against the perpetrators of this great lie.

 

I can love Canada and still say that it is not the best choice for my family socio-economically. Many refugees still love their countries despite having to leave.

My dysfunctional family? The memories of an abused childhood? My college drop-out social circle? My region where all of the career options are: a) GM plant b)Ford Plant c) Call centers? My extended family who could care less?

Why would I leave that?

I left Canada at 16. I did receive good education until then. But something happened - I went from being a discouraged high school student into a system that really cultivated my potential and pumped me up about being successful. I met people for the first time in my life who were very successful at rather young ages. It could be conincidence, but I can't help but feel America's success and progress mentality pushed me from being an average high school student leaving Canada to eventually going to Harvard Law School. I really do feel that the US university system, despite being accused of being academically weak, gave me experiences and mentors who really encouraged me and led me to the path I'm on.

Who knows, maybe if I would have left Southern Ontario, where I see it as the "lobsters in the pot" pulling-each-other-down mentality, for Vancouver or Toronto, the same thing would have happened.

As for questioning my love for Canada, you can have a relative who lets you down and is a disappointment, and still love them.

While I had expected a few "good riddance" type posts, I am surprised at your malice.

I don't feel guilty about selling out for money one bit. It is not a shameful thing to want to amass wealth, unless your purposes are evil. My openly stated purpose is to stabilize my family, provide nice things - when I retire young to teach and help organize and run some economic development work, likely in the Third World. Money gets things done. I'm not ashamed to want a foundation and scholarships with my name on them. And before you retort, "money isn't everything," yes, I know that, and people who know me know my priorities.

If there's anything I feel bad about, is that to achieve such goals it is impractical to stay in Canada. And thus, yes, I'm an open and active participant in the Brain Drain.

Frank - Thank you for your response; while Detroit is not representative of the United States, I think your points about the foreign bank policy is valid - and access to capital is a big sticking point for fledgling business.

 

Wow, you seem pretty bitter. Why don't you just leave today...or is there somthing you still need from this "****hole" Kanadah

 

All I can say is, ciao

 

Not bitter......just realistic......there's better and worse trade offs than this place......but planning takes precedence.

I don't have enough accumulated net worth to do it today as I have just started a business........that's why we haven't bailed. I cannot work there as I don't have a work visa yet (just resident) and am not 100% fluent either (50% more or less currently and the biggest obstacle toward opening a business there). Economically with her income down potential down there and our place we have.....we could do it now.......but I'd sit around all day at my favorite barraca practicing my fofoca with the ladies and I'd probably die of self induced liver failure in two years or a jealous wife........remember that I said I was realistic ?

Rather than giving me the broom can you point out where the arguments from me and ryalex...etc....are wrong ? That would do more to convince those who think otherwise. Even Franks point about the income disparity is again from someone who has probably not really lived in a third world country and seen income gaps there amongst the successes everywhere else that they fail to visualize.

I've calculated the shortest amount of time necessary to break free of this place for my own betterment after paying dues that I will not collect on.....to do anything less is against common sense to a studied person.