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Capristo Exhaust Bracket Rattle/Vibration

Discussion in '360/430' started by Cinque, Dec 30, 2018.

  1. Cinque

    Cinque Formula Junior

    Aug 4, 2012
    402
    West Coast
    I installed Capristo Exhaust brackets a while back with the goal of preserving my stock exhaust manifolds. Although since I have been hearing a very annoying rattling/vibration noise which I have a pretty strong suspicion is coming from the Capristo brackets, as I never heard anything like it back when I still had the stock exhaust brackets.

    I don't hear it when I accelerate or have my foot on the gas, but as soon as I take my foot off the gas and let the engine wind down and the RPM's drop, I hear this annoying high pitched buzz or vibration behind me. For the lack of a better description, almost a kazoo like sound. And then once the engine winds down, the noise stops.

    Has anybody else with the Capristo brackets experienced this type of rattle/vibration? I am wondering if I need to tighten the bolts which compress the springs? But then that makes me wonder if I tighten them if that would defeat the purpose of allowing the bolts on the brackets to slide to allow the manifolds to expand and contract?

    Any opinions or advice is appreciated!
     
  2. KBR54

    KBR54 Karting
    Owner

    Sep 23, 2017
    154
    Sylvan Lake Alberta Canada
    Full Name:
    David Garratt
    I installed Capristo brackets and also had a buzzing sound soon after. It turned out to be one of my Exhaust Tips was just slightly loose.
    I had a friend look around the back as I rev’d it up to where the buzzing sound could be heard, he touched the Tips and found the buzzing stopped when touching the passenger side outside Tip.
    The welds on the Tips are known to have issues.
    I ended up wedging a piece of aluminum in there to tighten it up as due to a long weekend I couldn’t find anyone to re weld it. A whole summer later still no buzzing so I might just leave the temp fix as is.



    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  3. Red 27

    Red 27 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 2, 2008
    915
    San Diego, Ca
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Besides the possible broken tip you probably need to tighten the nuts that run through the springs. The cupped caps on the springs will let the system move back and forth as it expands and contracts from heat. The nuts supplied when I purchased my brackets had a nylon locking system that failed and loosened up with the heat in that area so I replaced with a higher quality locking nut. No issues since. I have a bag of these nuts if you need any.
     
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  4. Cinque

    Cinque Formula Junior

    Aug 4, 2012
    402
    West Coast
    Thank you very much. I will definitely follow your advice and check the exhaust tips as well as I try to identify the source of the buzzing. Appreciate the insight!
     
  5. Cinque

    Cinque Formula Junior

    Aug 4, 2012
    402
    West Coast
    Thanks for your insight and offer for the nuts, very kind of you! I have a follow up question, you mention the cupped caps on the springs should let the system move back and forth with the manifold expansion. Perhaps something is wrong with my brackets, as mine seem to stick in place. In fact before a drive, I have to physically slide the spring bolts back and forth a few times to loosen them up, or they literally do not move at all from before to after the drive. It is like they get stuck. If I do as I mentioned and loosen them up pre-drive, then I can see decent movement with the spring bolts from pre to post drive.

    Do you lubricate the sliding area of the brackets at all so that the metal on metal with the cupped caps to the brackets slides easier?

    Because mine seem so tight and can barely be moved even in trying to slide them by hand, I only assumed that if I tightened them further and compress the spring to try to eliminate the vibration noise, that I would only end up making the cupped caps virtually impossible to slide. I hope my description as to my issue makes sense, and let me know if your brackets are similar, or if yours seem to move easier?

    Do you experience any type of vibration/buzzing noise when you let your foot off the gas and the engine winds down naturally?
     
  6. Red 27

    Red 27 Formula Junior
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    Feb 2, 2008
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    San Diego, Ca
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    Dave
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  7. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

    Feb 5, 2014
    1,511
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    The Capristo brackets, whilst allowing some flex, do effectively create a metal on metal link from the exhaust to the chassis, hence do create more vibration. It can be minimised with correct adjustment but is still perceptible.
     
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  8. Cinque

    Cinque Formula Junior

    Aug 4, 2012
    402
    West Coast
    Thanks, I checked it out. The thing I don't see, and doesn't seem to be specified in any of the instructions, is how much to tighten the bolts with the springs on them (ie how compressed should the springs be)? Do you remember how much you tightened yours? Since you are not getting any vibration you must have done it right!
     
  9. Cinque

    Cinque Formula Junior

    Aug 4, 2012
    402
    West Coast
    Good point, in fact I was thinking about that recently as I am getting ready to install Fabspeed headers as I didn't want to be concerned about cracks, precats, etc any more. With my recent frustrations on the vibration/buzzing which I believe is linked to the Capristo brackets, I was thinking about switching back to the stock exhaust bracket at the same time I install the headers.

    I know you have spent a tremendous amount of time working on 430's so I was curious of your thoughts. Once I install the Fabspeed headers in my mind I wont be concerned about the manifolds cracking or precats breaking up anymore. With this being the case do you think I am better off sticking with the Capristo brackets, or switching back to the stock exhaust brackets?

    I also remember one person here on fchat suggested just using the upper bow spring portion of the stock brackets only. If I remember correctly the logic was that the bow spring was more than enough to support the exhaust, and by getting rid of the lower portion, you were getting rid of the rigid part that would limit the headers ability to expand/contract. What are your thoughts on this option?
     
  10. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

    Feb 5, 2014
    1,511
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Despite some press stating otherwise the stock manifolds are actually well made and relatively sturdy - the problem stems entirely from the forward/lower brackets; It still baffles me why a fixed mounting system was chosen. It just doesn't make engineering sense.

    A few people have removed the lower brackets and shown that the rear mount will reliably support the system; it's a very sturdy piece so I'd be happy with it.
     
  11. Jgivoo

    Jgivoo Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 22, 2016
    328
    New Jersey
    I am in total agreement with mwstewart. That said, I installed OEM sport exhaust on my 430 (made by Tubi). This system allows expansion of the exhaust system without the mechanical stresses brought on by the original exhaust fixed mounting system thus minimizing if not eliminating the stock manifold cracking.
     
  12. Steelton Keith

    Steelton Keith F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Aug 19, 2009
    4,046
    Raleigh NC and Hershey PA
    Full Name:
    Keith Hall
    I've have the same rattle since Capristo brackets installed. The headers were replaced prior to my purchase though. You can also get some rattle from the heat shields and tips as others have mentioned. I just live with it, not too bad and mostly at lower revs.
     
  13. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2005
    4,186
    Switzerland
    it helps if you install a spacer between the rear cross member and capristo brackets
     
  14. chenglo1

    chenglo1 Karting

    Jun 23, 2012
    191
    Midwest
    Full Name:
    Cheng
    I hope you figured this out by now. Im glad i found this thread as my f430 developed rattling or distortion like sound ( think back to old days of the tv channels with no programming-ant race sound). Now that i read your post, mine popped up after the Capristo bracket install too. However it reliably occurs at 2900 rpms and goes away at just over 3000 rpms. It doesnt matter which gear but much easier to hear inn3, 4, 5 or 6 gear. Our driving season is over up here in MN but im compiling a list to check. For now, i think it easy to tighten those spring / bolt assemblies. Mine are super loose to allow movement. Im going toI email Capristo for more info n will post their answer. Sorry for hi jacking but love to hear any thoughts or if ur rattle appeared only in a certsin rpm range.
     
  15. jo.e

    jo.e Karting

    Jan 6, 2017
    131
    Germany
    Full Name:
    Jochen
    So if the Capristo bracket rattles, then that can only have 2 reasons:

    1.) The rubber between Capristo plate and body is gone and needs to be replaced.

    2.) The screws are not tightened tight enough.
     
  16. Cinque

    Cinque Formula Junior

    Aug 4, 2012
    402
    West Coast
    #16 Cinque, May 1, 2019
    Last edited: May 1, 2019
    I wanted to revisit this thread as I still have the same vibration noise which I believe is due to the Capristo exhaust brackets.

    To review what I am finding, I don't hear it when I accelerate or have my foot on the gas, but as soon as I take my foot off the gas and let the engine wind down and the RPM's drop, I hear this annoying high pitched buzz or vibration behind me. For the lack of a better description, almost a kazoo like sound. And then once the engine winds down, the noise stops.

    Has anybody else with the Capristo brackets experienced this type of rattle/vibration and hopefully solved it?

    My car is currently in the shop as I am installing Fabspeed headers thus I wanted to trouble shoot the Capristo exhaust brackets while they have access.

    I am wondering if I need to tighten the bolts which compress the springs? But then that makes me wonder if I tighten them if that would defeat the purpose of allowing the bolts on the brackets to slide to allow the manifolds to expand and contract? (as on my car they are already hard to slide by hand, it takes considerable effort)

    Also considering a last resort of re-installing the stock exhaust bracket, but just the upper bow spring as some have suggested the lower rigid stock brackets really aren’t needed to support the exhaust. Technically with new Fabspeed headers I should not have to worry about cracking anymore like with the stock manifolds, so perhaps stock bracket would be fine. But in some way, would hate to abandon the Capristo brackets since I spent a lot on them!

    Any advice would be much appreciated!
     
  17. jo.e

    jo.e Karting

    Jan 6, 2017
    131
    Germany
    Full Name:
    Jochen
    The screws must be tightened so that the two upper spring plates almost touch each other (small preload spring).
     
  18. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

    Feb 5, 2014
    1,511
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    I have the Capristo Scuderia exhaust system and whilst it doesn't have the exhaust to chassis arrangement that the F430 brackets make use of, it does have the four main spring and four pre-load spring arrangement. Since gfitting, guess what - the rattle is back. My pre-load spring cups are nearly touching so I can't add any more.

    On the F430 I think it's actually a mix of vibration transmitted to the chassis and also an audible rattle from the spring arrangement.
     
  19. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2005
    4,186
    Switzerland
    The concept is great but the reality is a real hassle, hence I took mine off and reverted to OEM, even if you have OEM headers, its much safer if you simply remove the unnecssary gearbox exhaust clamps
     
  20. Cinque

    Cinque Formula Junior

    Aug 4, 2012
    402
    West Coast
    Thanks for the insight! I’ll take a look.
     
  21. Cinque

    Cinque Formula Junior

    Aug 4, 2012
    402
    West Coast
    Thanks for your insight. It’s interesting as my mechanic was actually a Ferrari test driver for 20 years. Yesterday we went for a ride so he could hear the rattle. Then he sat in the drivers seat and gently revved the engine while parked and he said he could feel the vibration and he too thought it was because of the connection of the exhaust to the chassis with the Capristo bracket design. While I can tighten up the screws I am wondering if this slight rattle can ever be eliminated due to the inherent design?

    I am getting the Fabspeed headers installed this week and since I no longer will be worried about my OEM manifolds cracking, I am strongly considering re-installing the stock exhaust bow spring, but leaving the 2 rigid brackets off (as mine are cracked anyway). Since they will already be working there, it would probably cost me less than an hour of labor to remove the Capristo brackets.

    My only reservation is that although I have heard the theory of going with the OEM bowspring by itself, I have never heard of anyone that has actually done it. I know you have more knowledge on the 430 than most due to all your work on the cars, thus wanted to ask your opinion of what you would do given my situation as I add the Fabspeed headers? Would you go back to the OEM exhaust bowspring brackets minus the 2 lower brackets?

    Would you have any concerns with this “untested” option being able to support the weight of the exhaust over the long term without the 2 lower brackets in place?

    Last, with the Fabspeed headers installed, would the bowspring allow enough room for expansion and contraction to alleviate the concern of cracked headers and thus the reason I went to the Capristo brackets in the first place?

    Thanks in advance!
     
  22. Cinque

    Cinque Formula Junior

    Aug 4, 2012
    402
    West Coast
    I am strongly thinking about reverting to the OEM exhaust brackets myself. In fact I have to make a quick decision as my car is in the shop this week getting fabspeed headers installed, thus why I am trying to decide as obviously it would be a great time to also change the exhaust brackets since they will be working right there anyway.

    Did you end up removing the 2 lower rigid mounts and just using the OEM upper bowspring mount? This is what I am considering doing, but I wanted to gather some knowledgeable opinions before doing so as I have heard the theory, but never heard of anyone who has actually done it.

    Do you think the bowspring by itself is strong enough to support the weight of the exhaust over the long term?

    Also, while I am not concerned about the new fabspeed headers cracking like OEM, would the OEM "bowspring only" solution allow enough expansion and contraction to not stress the headers/cats/etc? Afterall that is why I bought and installed the Capristo brackets in the first place, thus I am really debating if I should abandon them now due to this rather annoying vibration/rattle!

    Do we really have to choose between annoying vibration with Capristo vs. undue stress on our exhaust system with OEM exhaust mount?
     
  23. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2005
    4,186
    Switzerland
    I haven't had the 2 gearbox rigid mounts on my 430 spider since new, for the last 10 years, the 360 never even had them and I'm not alone
     
  24. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

    Feb 5, 2014
    1,511
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Richard and others have proven the approach. Ferrari also used it on the Scuderia (the exhaust is lighter but not by much).
     
  25. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

    Feb 5, 2014
    1,511
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    P.S. I think it's the better option.
     

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