Car design is harder than I had thought... help please

By the way,you'll love that book.Many cool pix.

Congrats on the contest.Best of luck!Can't win unless you enter.

 

The Art and Color of GM doesn't come up on either Amazon or bookfinder.com Is there an esoteric bookstore for these sorts of publications?

Also, does anyone know of a good primer on road car aerodynamics? (Books on race car aerodynamics are a dime a dozen.)

 

Believe it or not but books on production car aero are few and far between.The SAE publishes
papers periodically,but there aren't many books.I have several of the Car Styling specials that were published on the topic of aero.I'll photograph them later.The concepts between race cars & production cars are certainly similar,but the desired outcomes are not usually the same.Downforce V. low drag V.cooling flow,etc.It's really an art & a science.
If you are interested in the GM book,PM me.

 

here are a few that are more biased towards passenger car aero
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John must remain neutral as an instructor at CCS. It does not matter if he thinks that someone is the finest designer that has ever lived or at the other end of the spectrum. He has to deal with the organizations with sponsored projects and see that his students get jobs with some of these same people. These people's friends might be able to sabotage any of this too.

Later I will go into a more historical perspective on GM Design and what it used to mean. The heritage of the organization that Harley Earl built has been squandered.

Jeff

 

Here are some examples of how surface reflections are evaluated in the computer. The black and white zebra stripes are a very traditional method which has been used since the beginning of time. Before computers and still to this day, people use flat boards with white and black stripes on them to reflect into automotive surfaces. This is a useful tool to make for yourself with a piece of foamcore and some black tape. In a studio they may use boards but may also have moveable walls of fluorescent tubes to reflect over the entire car. The second image shows the similar zebra stripes but using the car color so it looks more natural. The last image is a single horizon environment which gives a simulation of the car sitting in a photo studio.
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excellent examples....thank you !
been using that process for many,many years.Still very effective.

 

understood, yes, John and i touched base on that, no worries, i just didn't want your post to get lost after my multiple postings there was all

that would be very cool! ...you & John are such a wealth of information / insight ...i've got a couple further books arrived, that i'm reading through now
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indeed, thank you Mr. Dixon

i'm more typical art trained, meaning reflection by a determined direction of light source ...so for my eyes, the 3rd picture makes sense, but the first one puzzles me a bit i have to admit
not trying to be cynical, just to understand better ...to my eyes it helps me see the surface contours, but i can do that with a simpler line grid work (easier on my eyes too)
i do understand the premise, like an all surrounding natural light source like an assembly line final inspection, so you see everything

 

check out p.285 in the GM book

 

hey! fantastic! ....now i'm really humbled ...i admit i hadn't realized (me not in the habit of cyber stalking LOL) ....honestly, the CTS coupe is one off my favorites and i'm not alone, also the Cian and Sixteen (too bad neither ever made production) ....it certain continues to inspire, looking at my drawing board right now

 

The reason the "zebra" stripes are so effective,is that it allows one to examine a surface for imperfections. For instance,if you are viewing a bodyside,the srripes should track through without any imperfections ( holes,ridges,vallys,etc.). Park a clean shiny car next to somehting that has horizontal elements,and you'll begin to see how the surfaces display the reflections.Any anomolies in the surface will be apparant by examining the lines as they reflect into the surface. As you drive around,look at other cars,and look at how the surfaces reflect their surroundings. And this won't work so well with matte painted cars.

 

Thanks!

I'm going to try to hunt them down, either for purchase or library borrow. (I'm having a hard time reading the issue number on the first car styling. Could you clarify?)

If you can think of any other titles or landmark papers on road car aero please consider posting them.

I bet! (What does a good wind tunnel go for nowadays, $70, $100M?)

I was hoping to buy a copy from a shop with a return policy on the off chance that I don't want to hold on to the book. I'll see if either Pratt or NYPL have it. If it's a keeper I'll PM.

Again, thanks for your time and efforts.

 

Gordon Murray (creator of the McLaren F1) wrote a series of articles in some car mag--I believe it was Octane. In one of them, he mentioned the prohibitive costs of wind tunnel testing. He built his own using a 40-foot trailer and some big industrial fan. Crude but effective, and cheap too. I think the whole exercise cost him very little. I seem to remember 400,000 pounds, but it may have been an order of magnitude cheaper than that, even.

 

Booking a windtunnel theses days runs @ $1500-2K/hr. Kind of cost prohibitive for small jobs.The race teams used to rent the tunnel afternoons,or the midnight shift.Gets very expensive.
But these days,you might not need an actual tunnel.With CFD (computational fluid dynamics) a lot of aero work is now done with computers,without having an actual car in a tunnel. The aerodynamicists will tell you there is a close correlation between CFD & an actual tunnel test. Sometimes yes.......sometimes not so much
Sorry for the poor pix.That first Car Styling Aero book was from 1985 and it was special issue 50 1/2. The SAE has many papers on aero in the vehicle business.Check out www.SAE.org. Your local library may be able to get some of the technical papers for you if you are not a member of SAE (society of automotive engineers).
Regarding the GM Design book,check with Steve Pasteiner @ www.autozonehobbies.com he has access to all the car stuff you might need. Because he's located here in SE Michigan,he knows where to find auto related materials.Or you can also try AutoBooks in Burbank,CA.They always seem to have an excellent selection of used car material for sale.

 

look what i came across today!

(well, it was new to me )

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWc725njIDU&&feature=plcp[/ame]

 

scary!

 

not at all IMO ...in those couple of minutes, it shows give a damn about the students each, and want to challenge them ...that is cool!

 

stole a few pics from this thread
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=373285
original posted in thread
http://*********.com/forums/ferrari-gt/73817-new-ferrari-f12-f152-design-development.html

very cool!

some things i took note of,

pic #1 with the B&W tape job, it looks similar to the zebra lighting Mr. Dixon posted ^^ but something tells me it serves a different purpose?

pic #2 + 3 + 5
it appears like there are at least 5 full size clay F12 models made up?

pic #3 + 4 so the F12 reportedly had no pininfarina involvement, so this is the inhouse design crew
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I see the obvious problem

Your model needs big boobs & a bikini

 

The first image is the clay model being measured with a white light scanner. I have not paid much attention to the F12 development, but hearing that they did it in house (without Pininfarina) would explain a lot.

 

looking closer you're right, at first it appeared to me to be tape? ...so they are digitally scanning it, cool

if IIRC they exclusion of pininfarina began with the FF and now F12 ....sad to see the pinin house closing up

 

love or hate Bangles designs, you'll enjoy him being candid here ...quite a character!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh15kU4B-pc&feature=related[/ame]

...on that subject, thinking about this, i like designers whom i can dislike thier designs or strongly like ...i respect that they stir an emotional response, even if it's not always "wow bellezza" factor

edit: some more

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=-VMaB_OLL0w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-VMaB_OLL0w
http://youtu.be/-VMaB_OLL0w
...can't get this one to view?, so click a link to view



[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6MNdpm77g8&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fNg9jP66JU&feature=related[/ame]

 

If nothing else,Mr. Bangle is a "colorful" character

But at least he has a definite point of view.

 

he is that, entertaining


so what would you guys say is your single most influential designer?

i'm going to have to think about this before i post an answer