Car design is harder than I had thought... help please

crap, i read right past that past, sorry

 

here's a tid bit re: GM news

http://www.carbodydesign.com/2011/09/wulin-gaowa-is-new-design-director-of-gm-china-advanced-studio/

...it's interesting GM disseminate design to studios around globally ...i see companies do this, expand out thier studios, then pull them back in to one, then out again, etc

 

Lutz has been recognized as a high flyer for decades. Even back while at Art Center his name was recognized as a powerful person in the industry. [Jack Telnack smoked nice cigars but he couldn't afford to smoke the Davidoffs that Lutz did]

Lutz final power at General Motors what he was recruited and hired by the chairman of GM with the mandate to fix the product problem. No question that Lutz was the right man for this but one must really ask why the chairman of GM had not been able to recognize the problem and implement the changes previously. Nonetheless having Lutz come in at that point did solve a political problem with turf wars.

Rember as part of the Lutz discussion that he had been vice-chairman of Chrysler during its great run of success leading to the sale to Daimler Benz. Apparently Iaccocca admits that he should have made Lutz his successor as Chrysler's chairman instead of going off on an "anybody but Lutz" campaign.

John dealt directly with Lutz so he can give a first hand description of the day-to-day character of the man versus the PR version.

Jeff

 

There are 2 categories of studios to think of here. There are studios with main companies doing domestic market cars and sometimes contributing into multiple market developments. This would be like Ford of Europe in Germany and Holden in Austrailia.

The other group are what sprouted up in California. These are advanced design operations that rarely do final production design (varies by company). The creation of these started in the mid 1970s and then had a mass influx of most manufacturers during the 1980s. The idea behind it all is the perception that the trends develop on the coasts and migrate inward across the US. So the standing story is that Southern California is 5 years ahead of most of the country. The logic is then that one needs to be in the middle of seeing and living the life to appreciate the developing trends and then use this to develop one's future products. The other idea working on this is to get distance from the mother company operation so they are not being driven by the corporate monolith's issues.

The advanced operations may come and go because of corporate financials or a lack of perceived meaningful contribution.

Jeff

 

"I was working on the front side of the bldg. on the 2nd floor in Chev.II the day the announcement was made for Rybicki's VP appointment. CMJ's exit from the executive garage in his yellow Daytona is etched in my memory forever...... :0"


Just as a postscript,I need to add that the very next morning,CMJ arrived at work and called all of us bozos together and told us that Mr. Rybicki was the new VP,and that all of us were to give our full support to push the Design agenda forward,including CMJ himself. I gave him a lot of credit for that.

What took place in the subsequent 10 yrs is a topic for another day.......:0

 

I'll save my comments for a conversation over a beer some day

 

I was standing next to MJ in the clay studio when the news came out. CMJ did not call him, the secretary did. He apparently left the Tech Center without talking to anyone.

How did Jerry take it when he got the news that Cherry was selected? Was that already the expected answer by that point?

Jeff

 

I loaned Lutz's book to our neighbor and he said he could not get through it. He had a problem with someone that had an ego that all encompasing.

Jeff

 

can you imagine Iacocca & Lutz in the same room.......................

 

For aviation it is that the hangar doors won't open up big enough for the person and their ego to walk in together! We are talking about large hangars too.

Jeff

 

sent you an email

 

very cool, thanks Jeff ...i recognize he's a large presence in industry, i just always wondered how he had/has such clout? i think of him in similar terms to Carroll Shelby too (from my vantage point anyways) being a straight shooter, bombastic even, to become larger-than-life? interesting character

btw which Lutz book is the one you mention? i'd like to find it to read

okay ...i wondered when they would say "advanced design center" ...long ago i wrote to Jerry Hirscherg when he started at the Nissan California advanced design center ...i was a kid of course, but he very nicely wrote me back, encouraged me to look to the design school in pasadena ....i still have that somewhere
it's fascinating to me to learn how these structures work, it's something not really ever spoke or written about, unless you're in the industry ...thank you



it's very cool you guys being able to witness design industry history like that ...each of you have said "the design world is small" ...can that said anymore? it seems like with such prolific growth in world markets, and boom in designers too


here's a funny Andy Hansel cartoon i came across in dean'sgarage site you guys might like
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Lutz book is the latest - Car Gys vs Bean Counters. His older book at the end of his Chrysler time also has some interesting points. The big single item there is to make the car so appealing that a buyer only wants that one; they will even look past some flaws to have it.

They certainly captured Jordan in the cartoon. I would go to their house on some weekends and evn on off times he was stilll Mr. GM senior executive. One Saturday he was sighting the wooden lawn edging to get the perfect curve along the driveway!

When Hirschberg left for Nissan it apparently was a big deal. It sure sounded like GM did not want him to go. But he was getting the absolute dream deal from Nissan. Complete free hand to devise the operation, hand select the people, create a facility wherev er he wanted and gobs of money to make it all happen. Did I also mention Southern California versus Detroit winter? He even did La Jolla instead of some of the places others settled for. When he started hiring the perception was that the people had to walk on water to be good enough to get a job offer. He was well respected and got some great people to sign on in the intial wave.

Jerry was one of the earlier studios to have a large presence in California. Calty was around but they had been keeping a low profile; generally would not confirm their existance for several years. Stollery was one of the early people there.

As for Shelby - made some notable accomplishments. But way too much "bowing to the alter of" with him. Never passed up a way to license his name and allow himself to be trotted out for projects by Ford and Chrysler that he contributed little. The only original Shelby Mustanges were the 65 & 66. After that they were Dearborn creations.

Take a look at his charity too. Very serious allegations there.


In the cartoon I get Chcuk, Irv, figure Dave Holls and Stan Willen. Who are the others?

Jeff

 

here's the link for the cartoon
http://deansgarage.com/2009/more-studio-cartoons-and-a-few-quotes/

caption

 

WOW,I can't believe you have that cartoon.I was sitting next to Andy in the Oldsmobile Studio when he did that.
From left to right:
Ed Taylor
Bernie Smith
Dave Holls
Stan Wilen
Chuck Jordan
Jack Humbert
Irv Rybicki

I'm kinda thinkin this thread has gotten way off track from the original posting. Should there be a new one started to contain all this mischief?

 

I think it is more fun to be over here out of the limelight; a little more open about comments that might not always be to everyone in the industry.

Now John, if you can drag over a few of the other designers to make comments we might get some more viewpoints. I still find the history of design, the players and the underlying politics fascinating. There are and have been some great characters. Designers by their nature have to be opinionated - have to have a viewpoint.

MJ really should make some comments. He does come to FChat every so often but I have not seen him anywhere here for a long time.

Jeff

 

^ i wrote asking Bounce (OP) about the thread, or a new one ....what ever you guys think is best ...to me there is SO much in this one already, IMO could continue inclusive, rather than lost being split up ...really is invaluable, thank you

 

OK whatever everyone thinks works.
Yes,I haven't heard from MJ here in quite some time. He can tell us Miata stories!

 

how cool is that! ...you never cease to surprise John

speaking of surprises ...look what arrived today ...i will definitely put to good use in the near future, thank you Jeff and John
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As a post script,Mr.Hanzel is now in charge of the Trans program at Lawrence Inst. of Technology. They are newcomers to the car design education biz,but are off to a good start.

www.ltu.edu/

 

cool ...sorry, i was adding/editing my other post

 

Good,glad you finally got it......was beginning to get worried.
Gotta thank Jeff.

 

"each of you have said "the design world is small" ...can that said anymore? it seems like with such prolific growth in world markets, and boom in designers too"

Yes I still believe it's a very small community.Probably lees than several thousand professional car designers worldwide.Don't forget,there are around +/- 10 -15 schools globally that have official programs that teach car Design,so everyone kind of gets to know everyone else.With people constantly moving from company to company,it's inevitable that you usually wind up hearing about the designers at competing companies.The "Designer Night" parties at the big car shows allow everyone to meet each other.

 

Glad I could help in providing the Clay Modeling book. Hope you enjoy it. What I will say about a lot of the approach it describes is that it is almost as if they know the design before they start and that everyone developed a key line layout in all the other views too.

Others can talk a lot more about the more typical practices but my take is that the clay is working a moving target of design so a lot of flexibility is expected. Set standard surfaces and then work the design from that.

I will tell one of Miata stories. In the aftermath of the huge Miata success and all the press notoriety there was a certain studio head that started claiming significant contribution into the entire design process. Such person made one drawing that had nothing to do with the continuing process despite all claims otherwise. Such person was just jelous that the ones that did all the contributions were getting all the deserved credit.

Jeff

 

absolutely, thank you both ...scouring even the city university library here, i did not find any book talking about the tools and methods, so is great resource ...thank you again!

i tend to be a linear thinker, so right now i have set myeslf a list of a few goals ...rendering/sketching improvement is at the top, so (even in the above pic can see) i've been sketching & sketching ...nothing for display really (i'd like to create a blog in a little while), but after years of not doing any art (young family, career) i just want to set some time frame goals, and force myself forward