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car design thread

Discussion in 'Creative Arts' started by jm2, Oct 19, 2012.

  1. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    Maybe I can hint at it in a discussion about what it takes or design leadership. That would be support from the very top of the organization (Earl/Sloan, Tom Gale/Lutz, Exner until he was thrown under the bus) against the other departments and division heads. A desire to lead the industry with an evolving vision so one is not stuck ever repeating a once successful "solution"; a belief to one's core in the sanctity of design. Looking forward not trying to find the future in the rear view mirror.

    That would avoid having me talk about how the GM BoD screwed up tragically twice - first with Ribycki over Jordan, then again with Cherry over Palmer. I can't talk about the current guy since I lack information, but it would surprise if the organization and the BoD opted for dutiful versus true design visionary.
     
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  3. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Last weeks DeLorenzo column is close to the mark.
     
  4. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    Absolutely!

    Design is the differentiator that makes one want a particular car. done really right and that buyer is not listening to competitive sales efforts, rebates, etc. I keep going back to Bob Lutz' discussion on this topic where no amount of salesman talk about market competitive percentile rankings is going to compensate for how the thing looks like sh*t.
     
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  5. Peter Tabmow

    Peter Tabmow Formula Junior

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    With the apparent exception of Toyota and Lexus...
     
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  6. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
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  8. 330 4HL

    330 4HL Formula 3
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  9. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Moderator
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  10. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    It is indeed amazing what money can buy.
    More power to the buyer/client. If ya got it, spend it!
     
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  12. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Another take on the Bill Mitchell Firebird/Ferrari. Interesting they don't mention that Mitchell wasn't happy with the first iteration with the Ferrari engine, so Ferrari sent a second engine that was then installed. But anyway, crazy piece of GM Design/Ferrari history.
    https://www.thedrive.com/news/40293/that-time-gm-stuck-a-ferrari-v12-in-a-pontiac-firebird-and-called-it-a-concept-car?fbclid=IwAR0nLDEpeAfcfCvsRG45dSxioLmLGxdFZiUWIgP7Z_9QZyr0B2xjZpj8JPc



    PETER HOLDERITH View Peter Holderith's Articles
    _baldtires



    When automakers make a concept car these days, they don't typically have engines. When they do, they're sourced in-house and are far from ready for any hard use. The same could really be said of most concept cars ever made. Save, at least, for this one.

    The brainchild of legendary designer Bill Mitchell's staff at GM in the early 1970s, the Ferrari Firebird, or "Pegasus" as it's more elegantly known, was far more than just a radially-styled roller. It had Italian looks, Italian wire wheels, and while it was a Firebird down to its frame, it had very real Ferrari V12 under the hood. One of the few concepts to ever feature an engine from another car company, the Pontiac Pegasus was and still is one of the strangest yet most interesting one-offs ever made by an American automaker.

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    The story starts in 1970 with a design exercise penned by Chevrolet designer Jerry Palmer. Yes, this design didn't start out life as a Pontiac. Palmer wondered how well design elements from a 1958 Ferrari 250 Testa Rossa would work on the new Camaro, so he mashed them up until he had something workable. When Bill Mitchell—a fan of good design no matter what side of the pond it came from—saw this sketch, he loved it. There was just one problem, though. Lines like that didn't scream "Chevy."

    Mitchell allegedly snatched up the drawing and took it down the hallway to Pontiac, an act which, speaking to Motor Trend, designer Palmer said "broke his heart." Once in the correct studio—at least, according to Mitchell—the design was realized in the metal as a Firebird instead of a lowly Camaro. The story gets more interesting from there, though.

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    Wanting more Italian flair for this project, Mitchell arranged a Ferrari-style gauge cluster and interior for the car, as well as a Ferrari-sourced exhaust. It wasn't bolted up to a burbling Detroit V8, though. A 4.4-liter V12—originally intended for a 365 GTB/4—was allegedly sourced from Maranello with Enzo's blessing. Perhaps he was hoping the Americans would finally see the light and embrace frivolities like overhead cams and red lines above 6,000 RPM.

    In any case, the V12 was installed in the engine bay and, according to some accounts, tuned up by Luigi Chinetti's North American Racing Team, a privateer outfit known for endurance racing Ferraris in the U.S. to promote the brand. Whether or not that's true, it produced somewhere in the neighborhood of 350 horsepower.

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    It reportedly went through a few transmissions as well, with Mitchell initially opting for his old cruising buddy, the three-speed automatic. Yes, a Ferrari V12 was—allegedly—backed up with the slushbox to end all slushboxes from GM, but that unit reportedly didn't play nice with the high-strung Ferrari V12. Later, a five-speed manual transmission sourced from Ferrari was installed.

    Other interesting changes to what was at this point not really a Firebird anymore include four-piston rear brakes from a Corvette, a custom hood that hinged forwards instead of backward, and a firewall set so far back—around ten inches aft of the stock location—that air conditioning was no longer an option. What they built, then, was really a 3,800-pound track toy. And time on the track, it got.

    Mitchell wasn't much of a racer himself, but evidently he got a lot of joy out of the car, so much so that he decided to take it with him when he retired in 1977, often showing up at track days with it to bask in people's reactions. The car was even involved in an accident at Wisconsin's Road America in the early 1980s, after which the front grille was tweaked to remove the divider seen in some of the pictures above.



    When Motor Trend had the privilege to drive the car back in 2006—fifteen years ago, now—the author claimed that "the Pegasus accelerates like a Ferrari Daytona with an extra passenger aboard" which doesn't really say much if you've never driven a 365 GTB/4, but in a nutshell, it was quick. It had 4.10 gears, a power to weight ratio roughly similar to other muscle cars of the same era, but most importantly, it sounded like an Italian thoroughbred. There are, unfortunately, no videos of it running online, so we can't share with you what it actually sounds like.

    But whether or not we can hear it run is irrelevant, because this is one of those rare concept cars that never saw the crusher. Mitchell willed it back to GM when he died in 1988, the car was restored at some point after that, and today it resides in GM's Heritage Center, a museum-quality piece for all to see and enjoy.

    There will never be another Firebird concept car from GM due to Pontiac's untimely demise, but even if the brand was still around, it's unlikely it would be stuffing a Ferrari V12 into any flashy new concept it revealed. That strange and singular privilege is and will always be reserved for the Pegasus.

    Got a tip or question for the author? You can reach them here: peter@thedrive.com
     
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  13. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Rookie
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    ^:eek:
    “Bill, I knew Pinninfarina, you’re no Pinnin.....”
     
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  14. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    A friend, John knows who, drove the car. He talked of the incongruity of hearing V12 and using the Ferrari shifter but then looking at the pedals with the Firebird symbol. He said that the motor was a comp Daytona that came from Chinetti.
     
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  15. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    The engine was tuned by Chinetti. The original Ferrari engine wasn’t ‘fast enough’ for Mr. Mitchell. A call to Italy and another engine was dispatched.One of the engines is still in its original wooden crate in the storage area at GM Design.

    Always thought it was bizarre to have a Ferrari engine in a Firebird, but Mitchell also had a Chevy engine installed in the Mangusta GM had.
    But that’s a story for another time. That Mangusta now owned by a former GMDesign exec is currently on display at the National Corvette Museum as one of the examples of ‘foreign’ cars with Corvette power.
     
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  16. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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  17. anunakki

    anunakki Five Time F1 World Champ
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    I dig it. I wouldnt want to own it but if you are going to go extreme then do it all the way. Mansory is horrible because it just looks like cheap body kits. This looks like something out of a sci fi movie, like it or not
     
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  18. tritone

    tritone F1 Veteran
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    Maybe part of why it appeals to you! You should 'shop one of your characters into it......:D
     
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  19. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Ya gotta love a Rolls with an interior like this. From Robb Report

    MAY 3, 2021
    Drake and Chrome Hearts Designed a Rolls-Royce Cullinan That Takes Goth Style to a New Level
    The one-of-a-kind luxury SUV reportedly took a full year to customize.
    By BRYAN HOOD

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    When it comes to luxury SUVs, the Rolls-Royce Cullinan may be the grandest. Drake knows there’s always room for improvement, though, so he enlisted Chrome Hearts to remix one for him.



    The resulting black-on-black behemoth is nothing if not over the top. And the Canadian rapper is so proud of his one-of-a-kind ride that, before taking delivery of it, he agreed to loan it to the Institute of Contemporary Art Miami for display until May 15.





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    The Chrome Hearts Cullinan’s triple cross hood ornament





    From a distance, the bespoke SUV looks like any other version of the Cullinan. But closer inspection reveals a far more unique vehicle that’s downright Gothic. The changes start at the peak of the hood, where the iconic Spirit of Ecstasy has been replaced by a custom triple cemetery cross hood ornament. The stock wheels, meanwhile, have also been swapped out for bespoke aluminum rims that bear the Chrome Hearts logo and are engraved with the words “**** You” in Gothic script.





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    Inside Drake’s Chrome Hearts Rolls-Royce Cullinan

    While the exterior modifications are somewhat subtle (depending on where you stand on publicly displayed profanity), the interior has been fully worked over. The Chrome Hearts Cullinan has quilted black leather everything, including the center console, dashboard and inner door panels. This isn’t just classic diamond-style quilting, either, as crosses, fleur-de-lis motifs and silver accents abound. Rounding out the makeover— which you may have already spied in the video for “What’s Next,”—is Drizzy’s name stitched into the fold-down sun visor, a custom Chrome Hearts A/C knob and a matching leather key holder.

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    The extravagant SUV took a year to customize and is part of the rollout for Drake’s upcoming sixth album, Certified Lover Boy, according to GQ. But why Chrome Hearts? It would appear the rapper has a genuine affinity for the luxury brand. Last year, he showed off a diamond-encrusted Rolex Day-Date with a gold Chrome Hearts bracelet before wearing one of the brand’s basketball jerseys in the video for “Laugh Now Cry Later” that summer. The emcee and the company have also collaborated on a limited-edition lifestyle collection available exclusively at the latter’s Miami boutique. Drake may struggle to find the right woman, but it seems he’s finally found a brand just as extra as he is.
     
  20. bitzman

    bitzman F1 Rookie

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    Who designed the Vintech Apricale? It looks like a mismash of McLaren, Ferrari and Lambo but which designer is named as the designer or which coachbuilding firm?

    Story that sparked my interest here....

    Viritech Apricale is a hypercar powered by hydrogen - dlmag
    https://dlmag.com › viritech-apricale-is-a-hypercar-pow...


    5 hours ago — At first glance, you might mistake the Viritech Apricale as the latest design from hypercar maker Koenigsegg, but it's not. The Viritech Apricale is ...
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  21. Jeff Kennedy

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    Is this what happens when Superfly has too much money?

     
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  22. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Of course! :rolleyes:
     
  23. Qvb

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    I'm gonna be ill :eek:
     
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  24. energy88

    energy88 F1 World Champ
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  25. Qvb

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    This is an Indian car show. The guest was my Art Center room mate Ivo Groen, who until a few months ago was the head of styling in the Citroen DS studio, but is now the new VP Head of Creative Design at Lynk and Co, Geely Design Global. Some interesting design history is discussed.

     
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