car design thread

energy88 · Jul 28, 2024

jm2 said: ↑

Autoweek

There’s Nothing Easy About Looking Inward

Developing a great interior for any vehicle requires incredible coordination and the guts to not cut corners.

BY DAVE RANDPUBLISHED: JUL 19, 2023 12:56 PM EDT

View attachment 3715788
STELLANTIS

In the past and even today, many design VPs had little or no experience developing interiors before becoming responsible for the entire product.

Designing an interior is considerably more difficult than the exterior, if for no other reason than the content of what must be designed.

The author suggests a lot of the most innovative and exciting design is now happening inside vehicles.

If you ask a child to draw a car, most likely the result will be a side view of something approximating a vehicle with two circles indicating wheels. Even not so young aspiring automotive designers, before any formal training, will likely sketch in the same way, a side view of a vehicle.

This may be a result of the importance of the side elevation in determining the overall look and proportion, or simply from a lack of understanding of perspective. Whatever the reason, what you will not see these future designers doodling is automotive interiors.The simple reality is that most of them think of a vehicle from the outside, with the interior playing a secondary role, if they think of it at all.

For many years the automotive industry had the same priorities, with the design departments following in step and in culture. In the past and even today, many design VPs had little or no experience developing interiors before becoming responsible for the entire product.

View attachment 3715789 Minivans Can Be Cool—for the Next Generation
Here’s the simple truth: Designing an interior is considerably more difficult than the exterior, if for no other reason than the content of what must be designed. Think about all that’s involved: Everything that you see, touch or even smell requires consideration.

Take seating, for example. The studio will initiate the physical design, which will likely have to fit within a corporate seat frame, with the seating supplier in consultation to ensure execution, functionality, and cost. The studio is responsible for establishing the sew pattern, details such as seam execution or piping, as well as developing and releasing surface data which includes hard trim.

The color and trim department will be responsible for fabric selection, in conjunction with the studio, and then there will be validation of seating comfort, with engineering, in extended rides.

View attachment 3715790
AUDI
Pushing interior design boundaries is Audi’s activesphere concept.
Then there’s the instrument panel. It used to be simple when there were round analog gauges, before digital readouts and now fully reconfigurable screens. There is an ever-increasing amount of content and features without a corresponding increase in real estate.

Designing for all this considers ergonomics, the latest display and infotainment technologies, as well as input strategies, whether it’s simple round dials (please, more of this) or touch-sensitive switches or touchscreens with multiple layers and menus for all functions. Technology is ever evolving, and you don’t want to get stuck with a CD player when no one uses it anymore.

Also, it’s likely that multiple components—like steering column stalks, light switches, window controls, etc.—will be shared across corporate platforms or brands, so add designing those to the list as well as figuring out how to incorporate them without compromising the design theme.

When a program is over cost, it’s easiest for the program exec to pull content from the interior.
Perhaps one of the most significant differences with interior design is the coordination of color, grains, and gloss levels. Unlike the exterior, the interior is made up of many different materials that must be color matched. A door panel, for example, may be made of both hard plastic and soft touch leatherette, with each material attempting the same appearance.

Add the complication that the graining—the texture that is molded or formed into the part—is also trying to be identical, even if different manufacturing processes are employed. And how about uniform gloss levels? It gets tricky trying to achieve them when different adjoining materials are chosen.

View attachment 3715791
BENTLEY
Bentley Flying Spur interior.
If all this didn’t make the job hard enough, a door panel may come from a different supplier than the instrument panel, further complicating attempts to make those match in color, grain, and gloss.

These are issues that exterior design simply does not have to contend with. It’s incredibly difficult to visually validate all these interior components together before production commitment. And when a program is over cost, it’s easiest for the program exec to pull content from the interior.

At one point in my career, I was assigned responsibility for General Motors’ interior design, color, and trim. It was a job I did not want, having done only exteriors up to that point and now being put in charge of a design discipline where seemingly everyone involved knew more about it than I did. It was intimidating.

View attachment 3715792 With Celestiq, Cadillac Tries to Regain Its Mojo
But it was also a time when GM interiors were not competitive and there was a lot of opportunity. Five years later, GM was doing award-winning interiors, and I had become a better, more rounded designer—with a more complete understanding of what it took to design from the inside out.

Today, I think the situation is better, and the emphasis has changed. Maybe it's because the public expects more from interiors, as manufacturers have pushed for better perceived quality and execution.

Maybe it is because of all the emphasis on functional SUVs, but I think a lot of the most innovative and exciting design is now happening on the inside. Perhaps aspiring automotive designers will begin to think this way, too.
Click to expand...

Not cutting corners is the message here:

Use of low quality materials can also make an interior look shabby, and very quickly. i.e. mis-matched adjacent color parts from different suppliers or parts specced to not be up to the job they were designed for.

I had a situation in the 1980s with a Mercedes S-Series where the passenger sill plate quickly became scuffed and worn. MB refused to replace under warranty, saying it was my fault for the abuse, was a wear part, blah, blah, blah.

Tenney · Jul 29, 2024

anunakki · Jul 30, 2024

jm2 said: ↑

Autoweek

There’s Nothing Easy About Looking Inward

Developing a great interior for any vehicle requires incredible coordination and the guts to not cut corners.

BY DAVE RANDPUBLISHED: JUL 19, 2023 12:56 PM EDT

View attachment 3715788
STELLANTIS

In the past and even today, many design VPs had little or no experience developing interiors before becoming responsible for the entire product.

Designing an interior is considerably more difficult than the exterior, if for no other reason than the content of what must be designed.

The author suggests a lot of the most innovative and exciting design is now happening inside vehicles.

If you ask a child to draw a car, most likely the result will be a side view of something approximating a vehicle with two circles indicating wheels. Even not so young aspiring automotive designers, before any formal training, will likely sketch in the same way, a side view of a vehicle.

This may be a result of the importance of the side elevation in determining the overall look and proportion, or simply from a lack of understanding of perspective. Whatever the reason, what you will not see these future designers doodling is automotive interiors.The simple reality is that most of them think of a vehicle from the outside, with the interior playing a secondary role, if they think of it at all.

For many years the automotive industry had the same priorities, with the design departments following in step and in culture. In the past and even today, many design VPs had little or no experience developing interiors before becoming responsible for the entire product.

View attachment 3715789 Minivans Can Be Cool—for the Next Generation
Here’s the simple truth: Designing an interior is considerably more difficult than the exterior, if for no other reason than the content of what must be designed. Think about all that’s involved: Everything that you see, touch or even smell requires consideration.

Take seating, for example. The studio will initiate the physical design, which will likely have to fit within a corporate seat frame, with the seating supplier in consultation to ensure execution, functionality, and cost. The studio is responsible for establishing the sew pattern, details such as seam execution or piping, as well as developing and releasing surface data which includes hard trim.

The color and trim department will be responsible for fabric selection, in conjunction with the studio, and then there will be validation of seating comfort, with engineering, in extended rides.

View attachment 3715790
AUDI
Pushing interior design boundaries is Audi’s activesphere concept.
Then there’s the instrument panel. It used to be simple when there were round analog gauges, before digital readouts and now fully reconfigurable screens. There is an ever-increasing amount of content and features without a corresponding increase in real estate.

Designing for all this considers ergonomics, the latest display and infotainment technologies, as well as input strategies, whether it’s simple round dials (please, more of this) or touch-sensitive switches or touchscreens with multiple layers and menus for all functions. Technology is ever evolving, and you don’t want to get stuck with a CD player when no one uses it anymore.

Also, it’s likely that multiple components—like steering column stalks, light switches, window controls, etc.—will be shared across corporate platforms or brands, so add designing those to the list as well as figuring out how to incorporate them without compromising the design theme.

When a program is over cost, it’s easiest for the program exec to pull content from the interior.
Perhaps one of the most significant differences with interior design is the coordination of color, grains, and gloss levels. Unlike the exterior, the interior is made up of many different materials that must be color matched. A door panel, for example, may be made of both hard plastic and soft touch leatherette, with each material attempting the same appearance.

Add the complication that the graining—the texture that is molded or formed into the part—is also trying to be identical, even if different manufacturing processes are employed. And how about uniform gloss levels? It gets tricky trying to achieve them when different adjoining materials are chosen.

View attachment 3715791
BENTLEY
Bentley Flying Spur interior.
If all this didn’t make the job hard enough, a door panel may come from a different supplier than the instrument panel, further complicating attempts to make those match in color, grain, and gloss.

These are issues that exterior design simply does not have to contend with. It’s incredibly difficult to visually validate all these interior components together before production commitment. And when a program is over cost, it’s easiest for the program exec to pull content from the interior.

At one point in my career, I was assigned responsibility for General Motors’ interior design, color, and trim. It was a job I did not want, having done only exteriors up to that point and now being put in charge of a design discipline where seemingly everyone involved knew more about it than I did. It was intimidating.

View attachment 3715792 With Celestiq, Cadillac Tries to Regain Its Mojo
But it was also a time when GM interiors were not competitive and there was a lot of opportunity. Five years later, GM was doing award-winning interiors, and I had become a better, more rounded designer—with a more complete understanding of what it took to design from the inside out.

Today, I think the situation is better, and the emphasis has changed. Maybe it's because the public expects more from interiors, as manufacturers have pushed for better perceived quality and execution.

Maybe it is because of all the emphasis on functional SUVs, but I think a lot of the most innovative and exciting design is now happening on the inside. Perhaps aspiring automotive designers will begin to think this way, too.
Click to expand...

The interior is often a deal breaker for me when car shopping. Interior has to be awesome for me to consider a car.

jm2 · Jul 30, 2024

anunakki said: ↑

The interior is often a deal breaker for me when car shopping. Interior has to be awesome for me to consider a car.
Click to expand...

One of the reasons I leased the Lyriq

anunakki · Jul 30, 2024

jm2 said: ↑

One of the reasons I leased the Lyriq
Click to expand...

And one of the reasons ive never owned a few cars i would have liked to, such as modern Camaro and Mustang. Just couldnt deal with the interiors.

jm2 · Jul 30, 2024

anunakki said: ↑

And one of the reasons ive never owned a few cars i would have liked to, such as modern Camaro and Mustang. Just couldnt deal with the interiors.
Click to expand...

Those 2 interiors are not very good, IMO.

Schultz · Jul 30, 2024

Your in the market for a kaiser sedan in 1951. Are you ticking the $125 ($1,510.46 in 2024) Dragon Skin interior option along with 1663 other buyers in 1951?

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Or do you prefer a bit of flare on the outside instead?

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Either way don't wait too long, or your dragonskin will raise into dinosaur skin the following year... and eventually be regulated to a Tiki time pattern

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Read Tom Halter's article on curbside classic
Automotive History: 1951-53 Kaiser Dragon – Altered Beast
picture credit for 1st 4 photos Bonhams

Jeff Kennedy · Jul 31, 2024

Interesting to notice just how short the distance from the base of the windshield to the vertical face of the instrument panel is. Immediately brought to mind just how much more packaging of "stuff" is now put into the IP.

jm2 · Jul 31, 2024

Setting up the show today of Styling/Design Art at the Royal Oak Historical Museum, located in an old firehouse. The show runs Aug.3- Sept.24. Some very cool sketches/renderings.
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jm2 · Jul 31, 2024

More artwork
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Jeff Kennedy · Jul 31, 2024

How are you organizing the pieces?

What is the oldest work?

jm2 · Jul 31, 2024

Jeff Kennedy said: ↑

How are you organizing the pieces?

What is the oldest work?
Click to expand...

By designer. There isn't enough space so we each got to display 2 pieces. Oldest is from the 40's or '50's I believe. Mostly by designers still with us.

energy88 · Jul 31, 2024

jm2 said: ↑

Setting up the show today of Styling/Design Art at the Royal Oak Historical Museum, located in an old firehouse. The show runs Aug.3- Sept.24. Some very cool sketches/renderings.
View attachment 3717545 View attachment 3717546 View attachment 3717547 View attachment 3717548 View attachment 3717549 View attachment 3717550
Click to expand...

Is that 1937 Cord picture by Tom Hale? Certainly in his style.

jm2 · Jul 31, 2024

energy88 said: ↑

Is that 1937 Cord picture by Tom Hale? Certainly in his style.
Click to expand...

Yes that’s Tom’s work. Very distinctive.

NYC Fred · Aug 1, 2024

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Title: Desire & Design
Author: Keith Helfet
Publisher: Porter Press
Binding: Hard cover
Pages: 138
Price: $52 – here.

There are many books on car design but this one is a new approach–one designer’s career from scratch, mostly with Jaguar.

https://**********.com/2024/07/book-review-desire-design.html

jm2 · Aug 1, 2024

NYC Fred said: ↑

View attachment 3717810

Title: Desire & Design
Author: Keith Helfet
Publisher: Porter Press
Binding: Hard cover
Pages: 138
Price: $52 – here.

There are many books on car design but this one is a new approach–one designer’s career from scratch, mostly with Jaguar.

https://**********.com/2024/07/book-review-desire-design.html
Click to expand...

I purchased that one. Very cool.
There are several books by designers about their careers.

I'm looking into doing one as well. Not sure just yet as to marketability and demand.
Posted first chapter at www.driventodrive.com "Never a Dull Moment"

NYC Fred · Aug 1, 2024

Jeff Kennedy said: ↑

How are you organizing the pieces?

What is the oldest work?
Click to expand...

You should pop up a notice in both the "events" section + the Michigan one...

jm2 · Aug 1, 2024

NYC Fred said: ↑

You should pop up a notice in both the "events" section + the Michigan one...
Click to expand...

Good idea!

jm2 · Aug 1, 2024

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tritone · Aug 2, 2024

https://www.designboom.com/technology/marc-philipp-gemballa-on-off-road-supercar-marsien-08-01-2024/?utm_source=designboom+daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=marc+philipp+gemballa%E2%80%99s+off-road+supercar+MARSIEN+has+aluminum+wheels+with+24-carat+gold
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Not bad looking.........for a warmed over Porsche......by another name.......not sure the 24k gold wheel centers bring much to the driving experience tho........
but what do I know.....my 59 year-old Land Rover has no gold, anywhere.....and still gets itself off-road somehow.......
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jm2 · Aug 3, 2024

Bespoke Cadillacs

Tenney · Aug 4, 2024

Riv 2+2 ...?!

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jm2 · Aug 4, 2024

Tenney said: ↑

Riv 2+2 ...?!

View attachment 3718968 View attachment 3718969 View attachment 3718970
Click to expand...

energy88 · Aug 4, 2024

Tenney said: ↑

Riv 2+2 ...?!

View attachment 3718968 View attachment 3718969 View attachment 3718970
Click to expand...

That DNA looks to be mostly Pontiac! Wonder what the birth certificate says?

jm2 · Aug 4, 2024

Tenney said: ↑

Riv 2+2 ...?!

View attachment 3718968 View attachment 3718969 View attachment 3718970
Click to expand...

energy88 said: ↑

That DNA looks to be mostly Pontiac! Wonder what the birth certificate says?
Click to expand...

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