car design thread | Page 789 | FerrariChat

car design thread

Discussion in 'Creative Arts' started by jm2, Oct 19, 2012.

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  1. VigorousZX

    VigorousZX Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2011
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    Attractive cars are not allowed to compete in the "western" world.
    A Lebanese tech billionaire exposed how he wasnt allowed to buy a factory in Sweden to make the very attractive Emily GT car for Saab, but instead only allowed to rent the space among other barriers. The unseen strategy is to get everyone under loans and rent... then manipulate them. Look at what a curse Toyota has been for Japan after building most of the worlds cars theyre $240 billion in debt.

    The previous concept was to have a price tag of $150k, now Saab is promising a new concept

    https://www.saabplanet.com/emily-gt-frank-smit-saab-spirit-sonett-rebirth/
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  2. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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  3. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Cybertruck - Exibit A
     
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  4. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Ch.21, Pontiac Design
    https://driventowrite.com/2025/08/19/never-a-dull-moment-part-21/#more-131534


    Never A Dull Moment — Part 21


    We Build Excitement

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    Source: GM Design
    Pontiac: Performance. The Excitement Division. No longer in existence. How things change. In 1990, Pontiac was on a roll. Selling Grand Am, Grand Prix, Bonneville, Sunfires and Firebirds, amongst others. General Motors decided in the late 1950’s-early-1960’s to let Pontiac occupy the Performance slot within the corporation.

    During the ‘60’s, GTOs, Firebirds, and Grand Prix helped Pontiac establish a stellar reputation for outstanding creative design and high performance. Legendary John DeLorean was part of the Pontiac leadership that propelled Pontiac to cult status. And design leadership from Jack Humbert and Bill Porter established the division as true style leaders.

    The 1970’s proved to be a challenging time for the entire industry, but Pontiac came roaring back in the ‘80s with the Fiero, Bonneville SSE and Firebird Trans Am proving that style and performance were not dead. Pontiac became the envy of crosstown rivals, Ford and Chrysler/Dodge.

    The Pontiac Studio Team as Terry Henline was being transferred to the California Studio.

    " data-medium-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/Pont-Studio-Henline-pty-300x241.jpg" data-large-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/Pont-Studio-Henline-pty.jpg" class="size-full wp-image-131974" src="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/Pont-Studio-Henline-pty.jpg" alt="" width="725" height="582" srcset="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/Pont-Studio-Henline-pty.jpg 725w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/Pont-Studio-Henline-pty-300x241.jpg 300w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/Pont-Studio-Henline-pty-150x120.jpg 150w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/Pont-Studio-Henline-pty-436x350.jpg 436w" sizes="(max-width: 709px) 85vw, (max-width: 909px) 67vw, (max-width: 984px) 61vw, (max-width: 1362px) 45vw, 600px" style="-x-ignore: 1">
    Group photo of the Pontiac 1 Studio Team with Terry Henline, who was being transferred to the California Studio. (JM II second row, centre-right.)
    Becoming the Chief Designer of one of the two Pontiac Exterior Studios would prove to be an exhilarating and challenging assignment. Pontiac 1 Exterior was responsible for the high volume cars, Grand Am and Grand Prix. I had my work cut out but I also had a stellar team to tackle the world.

    Grand Am clay. Source: GM Design

    " data-medium-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IMG_0795-300x205.jpg" data-large-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IMG_0795.jpg" class="size-full wp-image-131906" src="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IMG_0795.jpg" alt="" width="750" height="513" srcset="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IMG_0795.jpg 750w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IMG_0795-300x205.jpg 300w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IMG_0795-150x103.jpg 150w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IMG_0795-512x350.jpg 512w" sizes="(max-width: 709px) 85vw, (max-width: 909px) 67vw, (max-width: 984px) 61vw, (max-width: 1362px) 45vw, 600px" style="-x-ignore: 1">
    Grand Am clay. Source: GM Design
    The first things needing attention were the Grand Am and Grand Prix. With the Grand Am, there was a customer base of over 200K units sold per year. It was a car that appealed to the masses for its bold design statement. The Grand Prix on the other hand started out in 1962 as a ‘personal luxury car’ that had morphed into a 2-door and 4-door Sedan. The decision was made to do something dramatic with Grand Prix.

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    Grand Prix clay. Source: GM Design
    The Pontiac Design team had long been considering a radical strategy of combining a Coupe and a Sedan as a unique entry. No one had staked out that spot in the marketplace other than the sport Sedans from BMW and Mercedes. If we were the excitement division, we needed to make a bold statement; and a high performance, low profile 4-door sedan might be a solution. We believed a coupe/sedan hybrid might be a chance for Pontiac to establish our design/performance credentials and separate us from the competition. A 4-Door Coupe? Blasphemy. There was no such animal.

    My personal vision was clear from the beginning. A Lear Jet/G4for the road. The idea of a 4-door Coupe had everyone intrigued, but the dilemma was, would a Coupe buyer accept a slightly higher profile, and would a Sedan buyer accept a lower, slightly compromised Sedan? An Executive Jet on wheels; tight, fast and sexy. What’s not to like? Pontiac performance with useable interior space.

    GM Styling

    " data-medium-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IMG_0832-300x149.jpeg" data-large-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IMG_0832.jpeg" class="size-full wp-image-131537" src="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IMG_0832.jpeg" alt="" width="500" height="249" srcset="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IMG_0832.jpeg 500w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IMG_0832-300x149.jpeg 300w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IMG_0832-150x75.jpeg 150w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 500px) 85vw, 500px" style="-x-ignore: 1">
    GM Styling
    It would be a gamble for such a high volume car, but in addition, our thinking was that not only as a design statement; it could prove to be a huge cost saving strategy if we could share parts and panels for the two versions.

    With the great help and creative support of the excellent Pontiac Engineering team, we decided to share the entire front end sheetmetal, fascias, lamps and hood between the two versions. Windshields and backlites would also be shared along with the decklids and rear fascias. The only unique exterior parts would be the doors, quarter panels and sideglass. Voila. A true 4-door Coupe.

    One of the hot young designers in the studio, Tom Kearns (who currently runs the Kia Studio in California), came up with a series of low, sleek 4-Door sketches which then went to a clay scale model. Chuck Jordan and Pontiac management loved the idea and we were off and running. I kept envisioning an Executive Jet on wheels; there was a common vision amongst all the players.

    The full size clay was progressing with a production date slated for the 1994 time frame. The Grand Am had to be ready for a 1992 intro, so the staggered schedules allowed adequate time for both vehicles.

    Most every designer longs for the chance to work on a Concept vehicle and we were certainly in that category. The two Pontiac studios would alternate designing and building one concept car a year for display at the Detroit Auto Show (which had morphed into the North American International Auto Show). It was always a plumb assignment that required a massive amount of hard work in addition to the required production car design work. Pontiac’s concept cars were almost always running cars and not the typical industry ‘push-mobiles’ which had no powerplants.

    Pontiac Protosport clay. Source: GM Design

    " data-medium-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/Protosport-4-2-300x191.jpeg" data-large-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/Protosport-4-2-1024x652.jpeg" class="size-full wp-image-131538" src="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/Protosport-4-2-e1754867750579.jpeg" alt="" width="718" height="457" style="-x-ignore: 1">
    Pontiac Protosport clay. Source: GM Design
    Slated for the 1991 NAIAS, Pontiac 1 was given the assignment to design and build a running 4-door Concept Car foreshadowing the ’94 Grand Prix then currently under development. A 4-door Firebird. This would show the world our intensions. A true 4-Door Coupe, oxymoron notwithstanding.

    Tom Kearns once again produced a sketch that captivated the team and it progressed into a scale model quickly. A full size clay followed and we were off and running. The plan was to have our shop build a fiberglass body from our clay and install a DOHC, fuel injected V8, combined with all wheel steering on a 120” (3048mm) wheelbase.

    The showcar came together rather quickly as we had a firm idea for the direction and a full-size clay that had everyone excited. Now it was time to produce.

    Unfortunately, time has taken its toll, and I can’t recall his name, but we had an outstanding contract engineer on loan from England assigned to engineer the functioning of the unique door operation we desired. He delivered a miracle in the way the doors operated, as it turned out to be creative engineering at its finest.

    Early on, working with the Color, Trim and Materials Studio, I had the thought of doing something very unique for the exterior paint scheme. I was fascinated with florescent high impact hues and thought, hey, let’s really make a statement with the color scheme on this one. Fluorescent, Day-Glo red was the ticket. Subtlety wasn’t going to be our statement. When I showed it to Mr. Jordan, he looked at me, paused for a moment, then said, “OK, if you think that’s what it needs, go for it. Pontiac should set the design trends.” And with that, Day-Glo Red it was, with white wheels and matte painted trim pieces. There would be nothing subtle about this Pontiac. A Day-Glo 4-Door Coupe. We weren’t going to tiptoe into this. The interior Studio led by Bill Scott and Tim Grieg didn’t disappoint and would deliver a bold interior.

    Doing a running concept car was never an easy task in that the complications of an engine and driveline all done in less than one year was a real challenge. We had to get the car ready for the NAIAS slated for January. The shops at GM Design could (and indeed did) build anything. They were the best, as far as I was concerned. They would start with nothing and build a running prototype; no small task under the best of circumstances.

    Source: GM Design

    " data-medium-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/Scan-16-300x228.jpeg" data-large-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/Scan-16-1024x780.jpeg" class="size-full wp-image-131540" src="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/Scan-16-e1754867718324.jpeg" alt="" width="700" height="533" style="-x-ignore: 1">
    Source: GM Design
    December was a Holiday month with Christmas and New Year, but our mission was having the car on the Pontiac stand in January, which meant working during the Christmas and New Year holidays. The Day-Glo paint we had chosen was going to be a real dilemma as it required several base coats, followed by color top coats. And like many things, what could go wrong, did. The paint needed to be redone several times and the shops couldn’t get the engine running properly.

    A painter and myself wound up repainting the car at 3.00 AM New Year’s Day. We were the only ones in the entire building that night along with a security guard. We had worked 30+ hours nonstop to get the car painted properly and looking perfect. Driving home that morning I wasn’t sure where I was, but we got it done.

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    January came and the engine team finally got the car running and moving under its own power. Several more days and the show would open. Pontiac had selected a name; ProtoSport 4, and that was that. Showtime.
     
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  5. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    From Cardesignnews:
    Midjourney x Paint

    Could AI rethink paint design?
    KarlSmith
    PUBLISHED 18 August 2025 - 16:31
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    Kaleidoscope, anyone?

    Karl Smith
    Karl Smith investigates how AI might assist the discovery of new colours and finishes
    One cannot discuss the future of the automobile without the subject of artificial intelligence coming into the conversation. From conception to design development, from manufacture, and even to sales, AI is seen as integral part of the car of tomorrow.

    A niche, but very important, corner of the automotive universe is paint. Beyond the issues of colour trends, designers have, in recent years, become aware of the carbon footprint of the painting process, which has brought up serious questions of the ecology of automobile manufacture.

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    Paint for future cars could be overlaid, or incised with intricate patterns
    Karl Smith
    The modern paint process is already a very efficient endeavour, but could AI optimise the process further? Not only in terms of efficiency in the application of paint, but in terms colour.

    The tuning of paint colours, the exploration of very subtle variations of colour, and perhaps the application of select shades of colours applied very subtly to enhance a paint scheme and overall form of future cars are all within the realm of possibility of artificial intelligence and advanced robotics, which are themselves infused with artificial intelligence.

    Ideation is another possibility with artificial intelligence. Already use to a limited extent in the automotive design studios (and discussed here at CDN as our February focus of this year), AI will have a place in the future of the design process. Could that process invite a new understanding of what paint can do for the exterior presentation of a car?
















    We understand paint as a complement to form, and as an ensemble, make a dramatic presentation when we see an automobile at speed on the road. When parked, we are used to gazing at paint as a limpid pool of reflective colour, echoing the observation Syd Mead, once made that the car is “a sculptural mirror”.

    But what if there is a field of expanded possibilities? Many cultures have a strong tradition of pattern and ornament that could be expressed in automotive design (the West did too before Modernism paved over it). Shown here in this article are examples of maximalist, ornamental, paint schemes integrating sacred geometry, zodiacs, flowers of life and Metatron’s Cube. These intricate geometries may seem strange to us, but could be welcome in many societies. And with micro-manufacturing, artificial intelligence, and hyper-local design treatments overlaid on universal platforms, the possibilities are nearly endless.

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    Could colour, texture and pattern be the wellspring of tomorrow’s cars?
    Karl Smith
    And reaching even further into the possibilities, could paint become a formgiver in automotive design? We are accustomed to paint decorating and enhancing a pre-determined form. But what if paint was part of the original generative process? What if colour has the wellspring of creation? Obviously other considerations would be in play, like packaging, drivetrain and market realities, but what if colour underpinned the entire process? Combined with advanced manufacturing, and autonomy, would the forms be different, even strange to our eyes?

    Consider the works of Mark Rothko, one of the Abstract Expressionists of the New York School of the last century. He developed paintings defined by immense colour fields, that were designed to draw the viewer in and immerse them in the power of colour. Could this happen in automotive design? Obviously, a car is a more complicated and functional artefact, but having colour at its initial conception could change how we experience the final design.

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    Mark Rothko triptych: Colour fields that envelop the viewer, evoking powerful emotions
    Rothko Chapel, University of Houston
    This could be an even more powerful question if 3D printing created parts or entire assemblies with integrated colour. The colour could influence the form of the parts and/or the assembly. The dialogue between colour and material and form could be very vibrant indeed.

    These incredibly complex issues to contemplate- and they involve an intimate familiarity with colour, material, and packaging at both the highest and most intimate levels. Some may never see the light of day, others may find themselves realized only in a limited capacity. But it is clear that AI has the potential to transform our conception of paint design, and that the opportunities for the CMF designer of today and tomorrow, are enormous.

    All illustrations by Karl Smith, with more than a little help from Midjourney.

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    August focus: colour and finish
    This August, Car Design News will be placing exterior colour and finish under the spotlight

    [​IMG]
    Freddie Holmes
     
  6. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I dont know a lot about wraps, but can they replicate the finish of a great glossy paint application?
     
  7. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    yes
     
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  8. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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    John Lennon was a bit ahead of his time! And what about those Hippies? :p

     
  9. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    The custom car guys were way ahead of Mr. Lennon
     
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  10. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

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    #19710 4CamGT, Aug 19, 2025
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2025

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  11. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

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  12. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

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    Of note, the dash screen isn’t a touchscreen. If you look at the center console, there’s an intuitive rotary knob that works as a mouse to precisely choose on the screen what you want. One of the biggest challenges in any machine is keeping your eyes on the road and not having your arm flailing around.
     

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  13. BJK

    BJK F1 Veteran

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    #19713 BJK, Aug 19, 2025
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  14. Tenney

    Tenney F1 Rookie
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  15. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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  16. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Great auto designs from the '60's. auto week magazine.
    Best Car Designs Of The ‘60s, Through A Designer’s Eyes


    Certain offerings from Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Lincoln, and Oldsmobile were on the cutting edge. What about Mustang?

    BY DAVE RANDPUBLISHED: AUG 12, 2025
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    Whenever I see someone on YouTube or read a column about the “best,” “greatest,” or “most beautiful” automotive design, I admittedly bristle a bit.

    It’s not that I necessarily disagree with their opinion. It’s just that I wonder what qualifies them to state one in the first place.

    While automotive journalists may benefit from having driven numerous cars over the years that gives them some credibility when discussing driving dynamics or performance, generally there is nothing in their training or experience that legitimizes their opinion on design over any other interested person.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login Dad Should Have Bought That 1964 1/2 Ford Mustang
    The difference, of course, is they have the platform, blog, or channel to express it.

    So, it’s with some reluctance that I may be about to commit the same act of self-indulgence, despite having made my living designing cars, by calling out what were personally for me some of the most influential cars of the 1960s.

    See, I just avoided those “best” and “greatest” terms.

    To start, it’s hard to fully appreciate the impact of the 1961 Lincoln Continental without understanding the context of the time.

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    AUTOWEEK
    1961 Lincoln Continental Four-Door Convertible.
    Cadillac was still embracing the jet-inspired fin motif, while the previous three years of Lincolns were ungainly, unsuccessful testimonies to the excess of the late ‘50s (and almost killed the brand).

    The new car was just the opposite—more compact than before and being remarkably free of gratuitous lines or decoration. It was truly unique.

    With distinctive blade-like fenders, curved side glass, and formal “C” pillars, the car had a self-confident, aristocratic presence that set it apart from its more flamboyant competition.

    GM Design Reaches Its Zenith
    This design would define Lincoln (and influence Imperial, Pontiac, and Cadillac) for the next decade.

    The ‘60s would see General Motors Design reach its zenith, as the 1963 Chevrolet Corvette Sting Ray so clearly demonstrated.

    The 1962 car was a facelifted version of the ‘58, and looking very old by then. The new Sting Ray felt like something from the future in comparison.

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    MARK VAUGHN
    1963 Chevrolet Corvette String Ray.
    With the new coupe variant came the split rear window that would last one year—and looked so good despite blocking the rear view.


    In the front was the first American car to have hidden headlamps in over 20 years, and they rotated into place—so cool! Even today, there’s something so right about these cars, the size and proportions.

    Compared to today’s Corvette, the ‘63 isn’t overtly aggressive even with its muscular surfacing. At the time it seemed more purposefully functional despite the fake air extractors and dummy hood grille (later years would clean these up).

    Sophisticated 1965 Corvair
    For me, this generation of Corvette is the iconic one, and though future generations are better cars, none look quite as good.

    The 1965 Chevrolet Corvair may come as a surprise to some, as it did to me. This was a car I came to appreciate later in my career, not so much at the time it was introduced.

    Arguably less influential than the first generation, the new for ‘65 car was sophisticated in its almost Italian-like flair, especially the coupe.

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    MEDIANEWS GROUP/ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER VIA GETTY IMAGES//GETTY IMAGES
    1965 Chevrolet Corvair.
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    1965 Chevrolet Corvair Convertible.
    Despite being an entry-level car, these were prime examples of GM design’s mastery of clean, carefully executed surfaces.

    With a longer rear overhang than the previous generation, the proportions may not have been as balanced or as fashionable given the introduction of the long-hood, short-deck Ford Mustang (it was, after all, rear-engined).


    Still, these Corvairs don’t get the attention they deserve, being deceptively simple at first glance. But look again, and you’ll find one of the ‘60s jewels.

    Big, Indulgent, ‘Personal Luxury’ Cars
    The 1966 Buick Riviera, 1966 Oldsmobile Toronado, and 1967 Cadillac Eldorado, GM’s E Bodies, for me, are the best of the period for American design.

    These were indulgent, large “personal luxury” vehicles with comparatively little interior space given their size, but that wasn’t their mission.

    Styling was, with each car visually striking and making a strong statement but clearly different from the others.

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    HAGERTY
    1966 Oldsmobile Toronado.
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    Robert Downey Jr.’s customized 1966 Buick Riviera.
    The Toronado was perhaps the most design forward, with its fastback profile, smooth rear quarter, enormous wheel flairs, and sharp front fenders. There was nothing quite like it on the road at the time despite sharing architecture.

    The Riviera, now in its second generation, was distinguished by its dramatic front and rear plan views, almost forming a “W” when viewed from above.

    It too was a fastback coupe, sharing the windshield and backlight with the Toronado. But while that car was all new, the Riviera successfully evolved the first-generation’s design character in a fresh and contemporary way.

    Mustang ‘Simply Didn’t Make an Impression’
    The Eldorado was perhaps the most distinctive of the three. At the time, if you bought a Cadillac, it was a body style variant off of just one design.

    The new Eldorado was not only the most elegant of the “E” bodies with its formal upper with bent rear glass, “chicken wing” knife edge rear fenders, and beautifully surfaced rear deck and hood, it was also by default the sportiest Cadillac you could buy. It still stands as one of the best Cadillac designs of any era.

    Some may wonder why I haven’t included the 1964 Ford Mustang, which was significant in launching the pony-car period and a strong design as well.

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    AUTOWEEK
    1967 Cadillac Eldorado.
    But as this is a very personal assessment, the Mustang, as important as it was, simply didn’t make an impression on me as a design as much as the others.

    You may also notice that the majority of these designs are from GM. Again, I’m guilty of being highly biased because these were the cars that inspired me to be, not coincidently, a GM designer.

    Also, GM at this time really did set the standard for American automotive design.

    And what about non-American design?

    Ah, that’s another story, more to come…
     

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  17. 330 4HL

    330 4HL Formula 3

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    Hmm, now there's a loaded question. Parameters? Are "automotive designers" designers or stylists? Designers in the architectural sense, or designers in the Dolce e Gabbana sense? Is Mary Barra entitled to an opinion? Is a graphic artist with a doctorate allowed one??
    By in large I agree with the author here on his choices, but so what?
    The arbiter is commercial design is does it sell;- the ultimate arbiter is the buyer -
     
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  18. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    The author is a close friend of mine, and this discussion is a recurrent theme.
    The consensus amongst many car designers is questioning the validity of journalists opinions on car design. Are they valid? Do they know what they’re talking about? Etc.
    But you’re certainly correct in stating the ultimate arbiter is the customer: ‘I like it” or “I don’t like it”
    However, with all due respect, your statement about designer vs stylist is a bit out of date. ‘Styling’ cars went out several decades ago.
    But it would seem, the semantic debate just won’t go away.
     
  19. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    Way too often creators of such lists confuse the quality of the design with non-design attributes.

    I would put forward that some opinions carry more weight based upon the person's background. Is a designer more capable of making a detailed review of a design in the finer points than "man on the street"?

    As for Dave Rand's list, the only one I might disagree with is the 2nd generation Riviera. While a nice design I find the first generation more significant.

    Other ones for consideration:
    70 1/2 RS Camaro and Firebird
    57 forward look Chrysler 300C
    Bullet Bird
    68/69 GTO

    I am trying to limit to the timespan that Dave is using.
     
  20. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    70.5 Camaro/Firebird = perfection IMVHO
     
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  21. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Jerry
    I am a design-snob and think us designers have far more validity in our comments and critiques than non-designers do. In fact, im pretty dismissive of non-designers comments.

    However, even though our opinions are more valid as far as what is a good design or not, in the grand scheme they dont matter.

    All that matters in business is what sells.
     
  22. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    In a way yes, but on the other hand the buying public may be buying for other attributes that are not design related. Is a 1973, and even worse, the stacked headlight mid-cycle revision, good design just because it sold well? NO!

    Is a Studebaker Starliner coupe less of a great design because it did not sell as well or that Studebaker had other issues?

    Can one see a great aesthetic even though the underlying car platform was deficient? I would say that we need to give credit for the designers' work since there are a lot of factors that are not in their control.

    We all love the 61 Continental but it got creamed in sales by Cadillac. Does that diminish the quality of its design?
     
  23. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
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    Oct 1, 2008
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    Andrew
    Interesting thought. That doesn't align with much of your posting history on "experts" where you have consistently lambasted experts as full of crap, at an altar that doesn't deserve to be bowed to, credited with too broad an authority to comment, compromised by their human biases, and that any comments of theirs should be taken with a grain of salt. Perhaps reflection would give you a greater respect for experts in other fields, or perhaps more appreciation for non-experts in your own? There's a cognitive dissonance there to resolve either way.

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  24. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Just saying that good design is rarely at the top of the list of things that make a product a success and ultimately we are making product, not art.

    So if people in China want giant ugly grills, then they should get giant ugly grills. And in a way, servicing that group, is 'good design'
     
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  25. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Andrew this goes to show you dont *really* listen deeply to what people are saying. My position is very clear and has never wavered.

    Many, if not most, so-called 'experts' in every field I can think of, are hacks. That goes for design as well and Ive been VERY vocal about that on this forum whether its auto designers or movie designers. I have countless posts talking about how awful modern designers are.

    To address the rest of your incorrect claim, Ive never said ALL experts are hacks. Its going to depend on the field as it seems ones with easier to get degrees, such as psychology, have more hacks than say, cardiology.

    So while I do believe many so-called experts are hacks, I do also give so-called experts more credence in their respective fields than johnny-on-the-street. You wont find me using 'johnnys' opinions on anything to support my views. What you may find, is my using so-called experts that make sense to me, over so-called experts, in the same field, that dont make any sense to me.

    So no, theres no cognitive dissonance to resolve, except...may yours?
     
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