Car still not fixed-What would you do? | FerrariChat

Car still not fixed-What would you do?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by James-NZ, Oct 30, 2007.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. James-NZ

    James-NZ F1 Veteran

    Jun 26, 2007
    5,822
    Hamilton, NewZealand
    Full Name:
    James
    I purchased my 355F1 10 weeks ago, in the first few weeks of ownership I found a few things I wanted to be sorted, to which the dealer agreed to do, these things were not urgent so I decided to wait about a month till I was in there part of the country again to have it sorted. In the mean time, the car developed a new more serious problem, the dealership were very good about this and agreed to have it sorted out at no cost to me. The dealership is the only factory authorised one in the country, and have there own factory trained service department.

    The problem with the car is unusual, it is randomly dropping into neutral, driving along in any gear at any speed, go to change gear and it drops into neutral and flashes the gear indicator light, there seems to be no rime or reason to the fault occurring, it is completely random and does not do it on every drive, it also dose not have any codes stored in the computer, this make's diagnosis very difficult.

    So after 5 weeks of ownership I took the car up to be fixed, left it with them. They did not contact me in the first week. So wondering what was happening, I gave them a call; they had not found the problem and were having trouble diagnosing it as it had not faulted on them. The next day I get a call from them saying they had the fault occur during testing and they were still a bit lost as to the cause, no codes etc. Another week goes by with no word from them, so I call again, they still have no idea but are working with the factory to try and sort it. 3 weeks go by, still no call from them, so I call again, this time they have found the problem and it’s all sorted, some relay switch that sends the TCU a message was apparently playing up, cool I think to myself, I get my car back. I make the trip up (150kms each way) pick up the car and proceed 5mins down the road it does the same thing again, I turn around and take it back, the service manager is very sorry about the hole thing, I do not get grumpy or angry, I smiled at him and said no problems, just give me a call when its sorted. At this point I am angry, but I do not like to upset people and I felt it would not do any good, so I left unhappy but calm.

    So another week passes, I call again, this time I’m told it was the clutch plate that was the problem, they have fitted a new one and are road testing it, a few days pass and I call again, I am told it was not the clutch as it still has the problem and they are continuing to look for the answer. the next week begins and we were heading into a long weekend over here, the weather was supposed to be great, so I gave them another call to see if my car would be ready for the weekend, I was told that it may be but they were not sure, closer to the weekend I called again, this time I was told it was ready but still need more road testing, ok, I figure there is no difference between me road testing it and them road testing it, so I picked the car up, I travelled home with out a fault, that evening I went out for a drive and the problem returned, so I call them and let them know. They arranged to have the car picked up so I did not have to travel up again.

    I called them today, the still have no idea what is causing this problem.

    I have now been without the car for 5 weeks, I only had the car for 5 weeks prior to sending it back to them, and it is becoming annoying.

    I’m unhappy for many reasons, the main one is outlined above, other than that they have managed to damage my rim and tyre while it was up there, they are fixing this, also the can had a bunch of scratches on it that were not there when I brought it, the car had another problem when I picked it up last, they are sorting this for me also, but strangely enough, the main thing that is bugging me it that every phone call, except one, has been initiated by me, they are not keeping in touch with me and this gets to me, I feel like I have to chase them to get the job done.

    What do you think I should do? Should I call the salesman I brought it from and light a fire under his ass, should I call the service manager back and put some pressure on him? Should I sit penitently waiting for something to happen?
     
  2. W. MITTY

    W. MITTY Formula Junior

    Oct 18, 2005
    297
    Most of us in a service related profession want to do the best for our clients or customers. Unfortunately, we also fall victim to the concept that the clients creating the most stink often get the most service. That means that the most patient clients sometimes get overlooked...sitting back and waiting just makes it worse.

    Your demeanor as you have described it has been that of a gentleman. For this you are to be commended. I, personally, hate to get nasty with anyone under any circumstances, primarily because it makes ME feel bad about MYSELF. In the law profession, we sometimes say that "he who gets mad first loses", and I certainly believe that these are words to live by. Maybe the culture in New Zealand is a bit different.

    So, keeping in mind that you don't want to change your value system based on the poor behavior of another, this is how I would proceed:

    First, I gather that you have no choice but to use this particular service provider. Make an appointment to see the OWNER of the dealership, and make the request in writing. In the letter, indicate that you purchased a car from the dealership and that you are most displeased. If it were me, I'd send it FedEx because that always gets special attention. Follow the letter with a phone call if you get no immediate result. The higher you go up the food chain, the more likely you are to get results. I've also found that as you climb the ladder, you are more likely to be treated with deference. The letter will certainly do one thing; the owner will go to the service manager and ask what is going on with your car. You will probably get a call from the Service Manager. Once you have their ear, calmly and precisely recount what you have been through, including the scratches, the damages to the wheel, and the lack of communication. Explain that you intend to maintain a long term relationship with with the dealer and that you are concerned and less than satisfied with the attention that you have received thus far. Ask for specific commitments as to how the problem is going to be resolved and on what time frame. Also, I would frankly explain that they should not mistake your composure for ambivalence, and that you will be following up directly with that person in x days.

    You don't have to be a jerk to get results, but you've got to know where to apply the pressure. Also make allowance for the fact that sometimes mechanical issues defy immediate fixes (it sounds like your have already done this). Having said that, there is no excuse for the damage to your car and a failure to communicate.
     
  3. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

    Jan 31, 2002
    11,294
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Dave
    At this point, I think I would be talking to the dealership about some kind of buy back and hopefully start shopping for a stick shift car soon.

    Best of luck,
    Dave

    PS: It would be a dream of mine to spend a month on your so. island in a Ferrari and not have to worry about the police. Oh well.
     
  4. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,596
    Gates Mills, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Jon
    +1 on the stick shift, but it sounds as though the dealership is doing everything to put the car right, and ultimately any broken car can be fixed. The real issue would be if the dealer washed their hands of it, and it seems that's not true here.

    If it were me, I would continue to let the dealership sort through the car and make it perfect. If they indicate that anything less than that will occur, then I agree with Hardtop that you ought to talk about the dealership buying the car back. The solace in all of this is that for all the time you're without it is that the hours and parts they're investing in this work do have some benefit to you.

    I would keep the relationship with the service manager as long as he is being responsive, and not contact the owner. However, keep every scrap of paper showing the service visits, work done, etc.

    FWIW, I have complete faith in my Ferrari tech here in San Diego (Bobileff), but he's not in the habit of calling me until the work is done, there's a decision to be made, or the work is running behind schedule. Otherwise, it's always me calling him.
     
  5. James-NZ

    James-NZ F1 Veteran

    Jun 26, 2007
    5,822
    Hamilton, NewZealand
    Full Name:
    James
    Thank you for your reply, it would appear you share similar life values as I do, I am not a quiet person, I understand that it is the squeaky wheel that gets the oil, this is why I have been calling them every week to get up dates. I also feel bad about myself if I get upset at someone who is clearly trying their best to do something for me.
    I have a vast mechanical knowledge, but I am not a Ferrari mechanic, nor have I worked on any Ferrari's, nor do I fully understand the components and how they interact in the F1 system, so I leave it in the care of those that do understand, and even they are having trouble diagnosing the problem, this is ok with me, I can understand that these things can be hard to find, but I’m not sure that 25 business days is acceptable.

    I have just spoken to the dealership again, and I must say that when I speak to them, they install every confidence that they will take care of the situation and come to an acceptable agreement for both parties. They truly are good to deal with. I also just received my second phone call from the workshop, this time it was the technician that is working on my car, he rang to get more background on what is happening when the fault occurs, credit where credit is due, and they called me. It’s a small step, but one I am thankful for. And by the end of the conversation, I don’t think he was any more enlightened than he was at the start, but that may be my poor account of what happens.

    I also have spoken to the sale's man I brought the car from, he is a very nice guy, and very professional. At this stage we have all agreed that they have till Friday to sort the problem out, at which point I have been given options as to what I want to do, one of those options is to go shopping for another car.

    At this point I am happy enough, I now have a time frame to work with, which adds comfort, I also can see the options laid out, and spend the next 2 day contemplating what I would do given the opportunity.
     
  6. James-NZ

    James-NZ F1 Veteran

    Jun 26, 2007
    5,822
    Hamilton, NewZealand
    Full Name:
    James
    Hi Dave, if you ever get down to NZ, get in touch with me, i could use a co-driver on a south island road trip ;)

    Also, what you have mentioned may become a reality depending on what happens Friday.

    Regards
    James.
     
  7. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,596
    Gates Mills, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Jon
    Sounds ideal. Well done. :)
     
  8. James-NZ

    James-NZ F1 Veteran

    Jun 26, 2007
    5,822
    Hamilton, NewZealand
    Full Name:
    James
    Thank you for your reply, it is interesting that your service guy is some what similar to mine, I like to be in the loop with my cars, I just assumed most Ferrari owners would be the same, therefore the service manager would keep everyone up to date on progress.
    I have no doubt that they can and will fix the car, its the time frame and communication that is my concern, I will get over it, and as I have said in the prior post, this is a very GOOD COMPANY to deal with, I would recommend them to anyone and I will be dealing with them for a very long time, its just a combination of factors that have me pondering the next move.

    I’m not bashing this company, they really are good people, I’m venting frustration with the time delay in fixing the car, sure there are things I would do different if I was in charge of customer service at this company, but this is nothing new, I’m just fussy. :D
     
  9. UConn Husky

    UConn Husky F1 Rookie

    Nov 11, 2006
    4,425
    CT
    Full Name:
    Jay
    Sorry to hear about the bad F1 experience...too bad, they really are a dream to drive and often bullet proof.
     
  10. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    I admire your demeaner, seriously.

    I'm a fan of fixing things myself to avoid the very thing that you are going through. But, your car is in the shop so lets check a couple of basics:

    1. since the 355 F1 goes into Neutral as a "protective" mode, insure that your doors and trunks (front+back-engine-cover) are closing their latched switches (e.g. does your alarm give you the double beep when you set it). Is it possible that one of these switches is sometimes reporting a door or trunk open while you are driving due to something not being 100% closed?

    2. Do you notice if your speedometer goes out when your F1 slips into Neutral in error? Keep in mind that a faulty speedo sensor will cause the F1 to go into Neutral or otherwise behave badly.

    3. Check your electrical connections:
    (two main ones) By your left rear shock tower on your F1 unit. Examine them for being rewrapped by your shop or otherwise burned. If those two are swapped in error, they will burn up the wiring...and a tech probably wouldn't want his/her boss to know about such a blunder.

    Check the black sensor on the very bottom of your tranny. Is it scuffed or does it appear damaged/loose?

    Check your connections on the right side of your tranny. A bad connection might be intermittent...giving you an occasional fault...yet not trigger a computer code because the F1 system can't detect every possible electrical glitch.

    Take a picture of what you can and post it here.

    OK, the above being done, here's what I would humbly suggest:
    In lieu of the dealership taking the car back as a lemon, offer that they give you a loaner car of equal or greater value until they fix your car to your satisfaction.

    This gives them an "out" if they are being honest and just need more time to fix your car. And if they won't agree to that, then play hardball.
     
  11. James-NZ

    James-NZ F1 Veteran

    Jun 26, 2007
    5,822
    Hamilton, NewZealand
    Full Name:
    James
    Man you're awesome! That is the best list of possible causes I have seen in the last 5 weeks, I’m not sure if the workshop can diagnose as well as you can, and they have the car!

    1) The alarm siren is faulty, but the car gives 2 flashes for lock, if the door is left open it continues to flash (I have made this error with my car at a cafe, took me a few seconds to work out why my hazard lights were flashing) so it would appear that the door and bonnet switches are working correctly, although if there was a faulty switch and it grounded while I was driving, could this cause the box to select N?

    2) Not that I have noticed, but to be honest, I have not looked every time. I can remember it happening and the speedo was still reading, it would be hard to establish if the speedo was reading correctly at that time.

    3) Unfortunately the car is 150kms north of me, and I will not be able to get up there until the weekend, which is after the Friday deadline we agreed upon, for interest’s sake, regardless of what happens I will have a look at these areas, I will also take photos of them to post in this thread.

    If the dealership loaned me a car of nearly the same value, excitement, or in fact loaned me a car at all, I would be in a much different state of mind about the whole thing, fact is, and I have no Ferrari or other loan car at this stage.
    Your idea would defiantly call their bluff, this I will try depending on Friday’s outcome.

    Thank you No Doubt, I really appreciate the time you have taken to think of those scenarios and post in this topic.
     
  12. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

    Jan 31, 2002
    11,294
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Dave
    We've been to your country twice and would like to go back. I would take you up on your co-driver invite, but my wife would need something to do while we are off. If I went to NZ by myself, she would change the locks and sell the Ferraris while I'm gone! But, we'll certainly look you up.

    Thanks,
    Dave
     
  13. UConn Husky

    UConn Husky F1 Rookie

    Nov 11, 2006
    4,425
    CT
    Full Name:
    Jay
    Good points ND! Hopefully the problem is found and you can post the solution...because in a few months someone else will be searching (hopefully not me!) these threads with the same problem...
     
  14. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Aug 3, 2002
    40,647
    California
    Full Name:
    Carbon McCoy
    Dude, that was amazing. Seriously.

    I'm reporting your post to suggest it as Post of the Month.
     
  15. Sharif

    Sharif Formula Junior

    Oct 19, 2003
    303
    New York
    Full Name:
    Sharif
    wouldn't a faulty F1 pump throw the car out of gear like this ?
     
  16. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways

    Yes, but that should leave an error code in the computer. If we take his techs at their word, there is no error code...so we've got to look at how the system would go into Neutral without leaving an error.

    One such possibility is that there is no error; that the system is doing what it is supposed to do (e.g. not going into gear when a door is open). Another possibility is that the error isn't being detected (e.g. an intermittent electrical connection).

    A failed pump *should* leave an error code (but hey, who knows).
     
  17. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,596
    Gates Mills, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Jon
    +1
     
  18. texasmr2

    texasmr2 Two Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Oct 22, 2007
    22,232
    Houston
    Full Name:
    Gregg
    Whenever I had ongoing or persistant issue's I would try and talk with the head mechanic and befriend him, they usually enjoy the one on one perspective.
     
  19. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
    5,855
    NoNJ/Jupiter FL
    Full Name:
    Steve W.
    First off, did you buy the car from the dealership or was it a private transaction? If you bought it from the dealership, I'd talk to the general manager or owner and suggest to him that since the car has been in their shop most of the time since you bought it, you really don't want it and you want them to take it back and refund your money, plus compensation for the travel and time you've wasted. Tell him that if they can't fix it and if you are not getting a car you can depend on, you simply don't want it. That may either motivate them to actually sort the car properly, once and for all, or let you out of the deal. Hopefully, you won't have to end up at the office of your local barrister to help get it resolved.
     
  20. KENCO

    KENCO Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2006
    2,396
    FL
    Full Name:
    KJG
    If you hear something like this...............its a clue..............


    Let me work on it........................hugh...........I never did work on wonna dem dare ferrari's before...........

    I think they just have no idea of what they are doing!
     
  21. Sharif

    Sharif Formula Junior

    Oct 19, 2003
    303
    New York
    Full Name:
    Sharif
    I know it's not really comparable but on my last m3 and on a lot of other m3's the car gets throw out of gear without any code present. It was fustrating to say the least, it's only after they replaced the pump the car was fine. It's a very dangerous thing merging onto a highway only to have the car go to neutral and be unable to accelerate. :)

    Good luck with it. !!
     
  22. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
    12,755
    Dallas, Tx.
    Full Name:
    James K. Woods
    Somebody send Lewis Hamilton a PM on this - I bet he would be interested!
     
  23. James-NZ

    James-NZ F1 Veteran

    Jun 26, 2007
    5,822
    Hamilton, NewZealand
    Full Name:
    James
    Hahaha, I like your style, but in this case these guys are factory trained experts, the service manager has over 20 years Ferrari experience. They are very trust worthy, or I would not have brought my car through the dealership. :)
     
  24. James-NZ

    James-NZ F1 Veteran

    Jun 26, 2007
    5,822
    Hamilton, NewZealand
    Full Name:
    James
    I’ve been thinking, no seriously I have, some times it hurts but I man up and get through the pain barrier......

    If a door switch was to read open while I’m driving, would that make the car switch to N on my next gear change? Or is that only a stationary caution to prevent one from driving off with there date still half out the passenger door?
     
  25. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    Drive around the block, open a door, and see if it pops into Neutral.
     

Share This Page