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carb linkage upgrade 308

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by pcelenta, Jun 28, 2004.

  1. pcelenta

    pcelenta Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    216
    a little while back Superperformance offered an upgrade kit for 308 carb linkage...it changed the cotter pin sit up with a more traditional ball and socket...does anyone have this on their car? If so, does it make adjustments easier? also, it is no longer available from Superperformance...does anyone know of another source?
     
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  3. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    I don't have that, but do have the similar ones from Pierce Manifolds. Works great, with one caveat.

    The factory ones have reverse thread on one end so that the adjustment is infinitely. These ones from Pierce have standard threads on both ends meaning the length adjustment is limited to 1mm (the pitch size) each. Works well enough for me.
     
  4. pcelenta

    pcelenta Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    216
    mitchell, thanks for the info..would you happen to have the part numbers that you used? (they seem to have about 10 different linkages on their site) was it an easy switch? did you maintain the existing ball pins or did you use the ones in their kit?
     
  5. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    No, I did not have the part numbers. You call them and order by length, they know.

    I actually got the ones that are too long, so I had to cut it off, run new threads with a die, and use to great success.

    you can choose to use that method (I am a tinkerer), or measure and order exactly what you need from them.
     
  6. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie
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    Just found this thread searching around and thought i would bump it up to the top. Anyone else have any experience with this setup? I called pierce and the guy didnt know about any linkage upgrade kit, but the superformance site has one for a 3 carb dino. Any thoughts?

    my cotter pin set up is lubed up well, but its really sticky/unsmooth in its operation..
     
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  8. gerritv

    gerritv Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2001
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    Hi
    This company http://midwestcontrol.com has all the linkage bits you could ever need. I bought some ball ends for my 308GT4 to replace the out-of-round ones on my linkage. They have rods with LH and RH threads so that you can do the required adjustments. If those are too long, cut off the RH thread end and re-thread after cutting to the length you need.

    This company also has an interesting way to keep their employees busy during the downturn, so far not had to lay off any staff!

    Gerrit
    http://dino308gt4.com
     
  9. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie
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    man, that is a great source, thank you. will call them in the morning.
     
  10. staatsof

    staatsof Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I don't know when you got yours or maybe we are talking about different items but I got a new set of ball & socket style rods for the DCOEs on my Lamborghini and they have the infinitely adjustable style rods. You can see them on their website.

    Bob S.
     
  11. staatsof

    staatsof Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Hey, great link! Thanks soo much for sharing.

    Bob S.
     
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  13. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
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    as far as I remember, this was for the Dino 246. I inquired back then and got the reply from Superformance, that there's nothing similar - because not necessary - for the 308.

    Best Regards from Germany

    Martin
     
  14. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie
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    #11 Sledge4.2, Oct 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Gerrit -

    did you replace part #23 and the equivalent rear carb part when you replaced the linkage?
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  15. gerritv

    gerritv Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2001
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    Hi
    I only replaced the 2 ball studs on #23. They were out of round and as a result couldn't sync the front and rear carbs to each other. Tack welded the new ones in, re-synced and my stumble at 3600 rpm disappeared! Check you ball studs, they might be out of round, it is surprising how little it takes to start binding (or overly loose to compensate).

    I didn't replace the whole linkage, I am a stickler for keeping to original where I can. But if the other parts were hosed as well I would have gone to spring loaded ball type from MidWest.

    Gerrit
     
  16. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie
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    #13 Sledge4.2, Oct 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    you mean drill out the existing ball, install one of these with a new threaded rod?
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  17. jerrye200

    jerrye200 Rookie

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    LOOK AT THIS
    www.dinoparts.de

    It is a very good site from Germany..
     
  18. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie
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    neat site, cant find any upgraded or oem carb linkage pieces though...
     
  19. gerritv

    gerritv Formula 3

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    Hi Geno
    Yes, that would seem to get rid of all the issues with linkage sloppiness. You would have to check on heat tolerance though. Have to do carbs ends as well of course.

    Gerrit
     
  20. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie
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    #17 Sledge4.2, Oct 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Then there are the from pierce manifolds...might be easier..
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  21. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie
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    #18 Sledge4.2, Oct 25, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It turns out my balls arent that round.

    I ordered a set of the .125 above from Pierce, they arrived. They length was not ideal, so i am just going to re-use the OEM threaded rod and replace the other bits. The old ball/socket set was shot, the balls were all out of round with lots of play. I drilled out the old balls and inserted the new ones - that should help with the tuning.

    Also, installed the new sealed throttle bearings and set the throttle plates. They went in smoothly, got them all aligned up. Got them to the point they will snap shut smooth and with authority, but when i really crank the screws down hard they dont seem the shut as perfect. They are pretty tight when it snaps shut smoothly, just when i give it that extra crank then seem to bind. I am going to get them as tight as i can with smooth shutting, and loctite 290 them.
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  22. staatsof

    staatsof Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I replaced all the linkage rods on my Espada with these and what I experienced was that the engine vibration would make the rods spin quite readily when the two lock nuts are loose. Frankly, it was a pain in the *ss. The rods also get quite hot and when locking them the adjustment jumps. I added a third nut run all the way to the middle point held in place with strong Loctite. That allowed me to adjust the rod as well as hold it steady while I tightened the lock nuts. It helps a lot but it's not terrific either. I'm not sold on these infinitely adjustable linkage rods. So maybe I'm just klutz but I can envision better things than this that would make the job fun ...

    Having somewhat of an interference thread on the two ball joints or the ends of the rod would make this job a lot easier. Perhaps a light application of a punch on the threads would accomplish this?

    I would definitely add the "third nut".

    My 2 cents.

    Bob S.
     
  23. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie
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    Its the same basic setup as what i pulled off (original linkage), i just replaced the ball ends. What other options are there?
     
  24. staatsof

    staatsof Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Maybe I misunderstood you then? Did you replace the originals (both ends with rh threads) with the infinitely adjustable type? I wish I knew of something different but I don't.

    Bob S.
     
  25. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie
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    I feel compelled to post this. I had replaced my existing ball and socket carb linkage to these fixed units from Pierce. Dont do this, it doesnt work. Obviously the pros and experience (or smart) wrenchs know this, so this is for the novice (like me) that might be trolling the boards looking for information. This fixed linkage setup doesnt allow for any play in the system to allow the throttle springs to return to rest on the throttle stops (the fixed linkage binds it up) and also doesnt allow for any thermal movement. Net result is that it will be near impossible to get the carbs synced. I only realized this after banging my head against the wall.

    the ball and socket setup allows for movement, and there is a reason for the slop, see this post....

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55165&page=2
     
  26. staatsof

    staatsof Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #23 staatsof, Mar 30, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2010
    What exactly do you mean by fixed linkage?
    When you say your throttle plates snap nicely shut until you "tighten the two screws on the throttle shaft"?
     
  27. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie
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    #24 Sledge4.2, Mar 30, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    i replaced the OEM ball and socket system with the below system. While it is adjustable via the threaded rod, it doesnt have any play at all in the ball/socket setup, which can/did create a binding situation preventing the throttle shaft return springs on the carbs to do thier job properly.
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  28. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie
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    when i put the throttle plates back in the shaft loose (without the screws), i could get them to align nicely so they "snapped shut" over the progression holes, but when i inserted the throttle shaft screws and applied torque to them the plates wouldnt close as well. It turned out that shaft was a little bend, so i replaced it and everything is good.
     

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