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Carbon Ceramic Brake Pad Replacement

Discussion in '360/430' started by rennspeed, Dec 10, 2016.

  1. rennspeed

    rennspeed Formula Junior
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    Oct 4, 2007
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    Rennspeed
    So after reading a bunch of threads on here I have come to the conclusion that the carbon ceramic rotors on a F430 will last a very long time. Regarding brake pads how long do they usually last under normal street use and what is the cost to replace just the pads?

    Thank you
     
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  3. F430giallomodena

    F430giallomodena Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2012
    910
    Lugano, Switzerland
    52K on F430, 40K on Scuderia, never ever replaced pads...let's see on the 458 now how long they will last
     
  4. rennspeed

    rennspeed Formula Junior
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    Oct 4, 2007
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    Rennspeed
    wow, is this the norm?
     
  5. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran
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    Feb 24, 2007
    6,184
    Silicon Valley


    Seems to be. Carbon ceramic material vaporizes when it gets very hot, as in repeated heavy braking on the track - their intended use. When used moderately in street driving, they wear by abrasion but don't vaporize, so they last a long time.
     
  6. ferrame

    ferrame Formula 3

    Mar 2, 2005
    1,179
    Orange, Calif
    I replaced my scud front brake pads at 11k miles and my CS at 12k miles. The pads still have a lot of material/meat left but the copper pins that adhere and hold that material in place is too long that my rotors starting to see copper color ring on the rotor.
     
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  8. micah coley

    micah coley Rookie

    Jun 3, 2019
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    micah coley
    The life of the rotor is measured in 4 ways. They last as long as the time and driving conditions you put on them. Unfortunately for your F430, rotors before 2017 were not calibrated for the tool that Brembo has determined is the only way to accurately account for low heat cycle failure. This video explains it.


     
  9. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2016
    3,645
    Uk
    Probably the life of the car if you dont track it
     
  10. micah coley

    micah coley Rookie

    Jun 3, 2019
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    micah coley
    No. It might continue to stop you, if you never brake hard, but they will not be able to perform up to their designed temps and will eventually begin to squeal and Crack. Especially since the 430 brake pads overlap off of the treated braking surface and onto the center carbon fiber area. This center area is softer then the designed brake area and will develop a severe groove.

    Carbon ceramic rotors were not designed for low heat cycle use for 20 plus years, and i strongly believe, we will soon see these rotors failing catastrophically. They have just not been on street cars for long enough to see them, but my clients won't be the first casualties
     
  11. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2016
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    Mine is an 08 and the wear is about 20% with 15 k miles so lots on them yet. I dont think the wear has increased over the last few services. Time will tell
     
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  13. Extreme1

    Extreme1 Formula Junior

    Jun 27, 2017
    615
    Santa Clarita, CA
    Is this wear on the pads, or wear on the rotors?


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  14. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2016
    3,645
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    On the discs
     
  15. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    34,160
    Clarksville, Tennessee
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    Terry H Phillips
    There are better ceramic transforms out there now. First generation CCMs are great, but have a few issues compared to the latest versions,
     
  16. micah coley

    micah coley Rookie

    Jun 3, 2019
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    micah coley
    The 20% is a guess based on the driving history of the car, but it is not an accurate measurement of the condition of the rotor 's health. Again, based on the proceq tool that brembo, the maker of your rotors, requested be made, I tested a 2 year old 2k mile vehicle and it was already at 18% wear. I show this in the last minute of the video
     
  17. micah coley

    micah coley Rookie

    Jun 3, 2019
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    micah coley
    So brembo doesn't sell the tool. I understand what you're saying, but the brakes haven't been around long enough to know how resilient they are. Anyone in the racing industry knows how catastrophic ceramics shatter when they do go bad. And if you're never driving your car hard, it might only produce an annoying sound. But, if you sell the car to a person that wants to drive the car to its designed speeds and temps, there needs to be a way to tell if the rotors are compromised and that's what this tool does. Doesn't mean you can't drive it daily, but be warned, we don't know what will happen in the next ten years when these 2004 model year rotors are still on the road
     
  18. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

    Feb 5, 2014
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    I believe that the tool simply refines the assessment of wear anyone with a bit of experience can determine by eye i.e. the degree of oxidiastion.

    Weight was discarded as an accurate measurement of wear because pad transfer can mask an underlying wear issue, but if examining by eye it is quite easy to spot that condition.

    Carbon discs are extremely resilient.
     
  19. micah coley

    micah coley Rookie

    Jun 3, 2019
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    micah coley

    That's not accurate. There is a thorough cleaning and even bake process that removes all pad from the rotor when testing by weight.

    Weight was discarded for its inability to account for oxidation and low heat cycles that also cannot be detected by visual means.

    I don't know where you're getting your info. Mine is coming directly from VAG manuals including bugatti and proceq, the independent test developer hired by brembo.

    Visual inspection reveals worn rotors when used properly on a race car. As does weight and thickness. This tool was designed because of a never before encountered issue of low heat cycles on street vehicles.
     
  20. micah coley

    micah coley Rookie

    Jun 3, 2019
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    micah coley
    Just to be clear, Aston Martin, Bugatti, Mclaren, Lamborghini among others still are using weight to determine the health of rotors... It's just this is only accurate if brakes are used in a racing manner
     
  21. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

    Feb 5, 2014
    1,869
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    VAG use CCB discs. Ferrari use CCM.

    For CCM, a visual inspection is very accurate.

    For CCB (not applicable to a Ferrari 360 or F430) wear assessment is more difficult and I would use other methods.

    It is important not to confuse the two.
     

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