Carbon Ceramic brake regrets | FerrariChat

Carbon Ceramic brake regrets

Discussion in '360/430' started by Pransingh Horse, Oct 11, 2006.

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  1. Pransingh Horse

    Pransingh Horse Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2006
    543
    Vancouver, Canada
    Anyone out there get these, and then regret doing so/wished they'd just have gotten regular brakes, afterwards?

    i'd be interested in hearing how customers are receiving these brakes..
     
  2. Tarek K.

    Tarek K. F1 World Champ

    Sep 7, 2006
    10,784
    Cairo - Egypt
    Full Name:
    Tarek K.
    I don't think so. I might be regretting not getting them.
     
  3. the_jay

    the_jay Formula 3

    Apr 26, 2005
    1,104
    Murrieta, California
    Full Name:
    Jay
    I'm sure there are no regrets getting the carbon brakes, only regrets not getting them.
     
  4. abz

    abz Formula 3

    Aug 27, 2006
    1,439
    PA
    Full Name:
    Al
    Did you get these brakes? Could you tell us what the problem is you are having that makes you regret getting them? Al
     
  5. ILuv4Res

    ILuv4Res F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 8, 2002
    6,529
    Full Name:
    Fred
    I have CC brakes on my CS. Although on a CS you don't really have a choice since they come with them, I have no regrets- they look amazing (HUGE calipers), and perform even more amazing.
     
  6. Flex

    Flex Karting

    Aug 23, 2005
    142
    Dubai
    i think what he meant, is the ceramic brake amazing for daily street use?
    not the track, because of course its better on a track

    i heard someone was saying that too, that its very rough for using its just great on the track but would rather have normal brakes for normal roads
     
  7. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 19, 2004
    7,502
    San Jose, California
    Full Name:
    Mike
    I have heard stories of incessant squeaking and warmup procedures required.
    When I bought the big brake kit (Brembo) for my NSX, they squeaked all the time until I put spring steel retaining clips on the hat bolts, and they didn't have enough "bite" until I did a couple of hard stops from fairly high speeds. That being said, they were totally worth it. NEVER got hot.
     
  8. motion

    motion Formula Junior

    May 4, 2005
    567
    At the track
    Full Name:
    Motion
    The only negative is that they can catch you by surprise when you need them after a high-speed blast and they haven't warmed up. It can create a dangerous situation if you're not careful.
     
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  9. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

    Jan 31, 2002
    11,285
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Once in a while I get the feeling I wish I had them on my 430. Then I open my wallet and see 15K+ floating around and those thoughts evaporate.

    Dave
     
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  10. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 19, 2004
    7,502
    San Jose, California
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Hey! Can I be your new bestest buddy?? :))
     
  11. azew

    azew Formula Junior

    Jul 4, 2006
    463
    New York
    I got them - love them - No regrets whatsoever
     
  12. Pransingh Horse

    Pransingh Horse Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2006
    543
    Vancouver, Canada
    Yes...that's where I was headed with my question.. The cc's definately look phenomenal, but I was wondering how they respond in real world scenarios, and if they are prone to squeaking when cold.

    Thanks for all the responses..
     
  13. yetis

    yetis Rookie

    Nov 17, 2004
    46
    New York, NY
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Pro:
    1) Stop better
    2) Less rotational weight
    3) In theory, they last longer
    4) They look cool
    5) In theory, they add to the resale value of the car

    Bad:
    1) They need to warm up.
    2) Heavy track use can and does cause premature failure, which your dealer will not warranty, due to track use. -- Some people say this is not so, but it happens on several marques.
    3) Expensive, especially to replace on a track (driving a Ferrari, so...)

    Neutral:
    1) For city/highway/non track use, they are fine. Only issue is that they need to be warm, so leaning on the brakes as you warm your car up as you pull out of your house is good.
    2) You might have a slight scare after driving on the highway for a while and you touch the brake on a cool day...
    3) They can squeak, but that goes with higher end performance brakes. Seems like a minor issue considering.
     
  14. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    May 21, 2006
    7,398
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Ray
    Great post. I installed larger F50/F40 size brembo brakes on my 355 and it was similar. The first stop was a little slippery at times when the car was cold.

    On the CC brakes, can you give an idea in percentage terms of how reduced the stopping power is when they are cold (or after being off them for a while) as compared to when there is some heat in them? Are we talking half as effective or 80% or ?

    Ray
     
  15. BritBlaster

    BritBlaster F1 Rookie

    Jul 25, 2005
    2,865
    Bellevue, WA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    I never had any problems braking when cold in my CS, although I only had the CS in 50+ degF weather.

    The squeal they make when coming to a stop was very irritating to me; like a cat's claws being dragged on a blackboard.

    Another advantage not mentioned is that there's hardly any brake dust so your wheels stay cleaner much longer.

    I do regret NOT ordering them on my F430. I will likely order them on my F430 spider next year, and without any doubt whatsoever will get them for the F599 when my spot opens up.
     
  16. tedwentz

    tedwentz Karting

    Aug 29, 2004
    64
    Mid Atlantic USA
    Full Name:
    Ted Wentz
    you want to track your car. I have tracked my car on 6 track days and have about 3400 miles of road use on my CCM brakes. My pads are now due for replacement but the discs look like new.
    But here's the problem - With CCM brakes you are married to 19 inch wheels and the problem is that there just aren't any decent track tires available for our cars in 19 inch sizes (don't even get me started on Pzero Corsas).
    If however you stay with the iron brakes you can drop down to 18 inch wheels for track use and enjoy a good selection of sticky tires. If you find that you need more powerful brakes you can upgrade the pads, or upgrade the complete brake package via Brembo for much much less than the cost of the CCM option.
    And when you need new pads every 6 track days you won't have to shell out anything like $3400 for a set (F&R).

    However, if you never intend to track your car I can say catagorcally that these are the finest brakes you will ever experience. Mine never squeak or squeal and the work just fine cold. And on the subjective side they look just as cool through the wheel spokes as the engine does through the rear glass. And that counts for a lot.
    TW
     
  17. RAllen

    RAllen Formula Junior

    Aug 27, 2006
    445
    Rogue Valley, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Richard Allen
    Not sure how you arrived at the listed conclusions. No offense but I think you should do a bit more research.

    Nope. They work fine cold under normal driving conditions. They do work better on the track once they and your *tires* warm up.

    JIC: F430 CCBs should not be confused w/Racing brake systems.

    "Premature?" 350 laps driving 10/10ths at Fiorano doesn't sound "premature" to me.

    Please cite a credible source. Otherwise .... you know the drill. ;-)

    Wrong again. At least in re Ferrari of San Francisco and RT Gran Turismo. As for Ferrai NA .... i'm in regular touch w/tech support because I track my F430 regularly. No warranty issues there either.

    Perhaps you wandered over here from the Porsche forum (inside joke, PDX area Porsche owners will know what I mean <chuckle>). Unlike some marques, Ferrari encourage us to track our cars (of course were NOT talking about racing here).

    The folks that say it's "not so" carry far more cred than your unsupported assertion which appears to be based on what other "marques" may or may not do.

    Sorry, if I sound harsh. Imagine a kindly voice and manner. TIA.

    Dunno much about other marques. I can only relate what reliable sources (ie; Porsche dealers) and a few RKIs and owners have told me over the past few years.

    I can say that BMW warrantied my M3 brakes due to pad failure while participating in HPDEs. And, yes, they KNEW I tracked the car .... because I told them (looong story).

    Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "specially ... on a track." If you mean replacing the pads during an HPDE (ie; tracking) .... I don't see why they would be any different in that regard than non CCB F430s.

    As for more expensive .... bear in mind that Porsche CCBs are a costly option and not (IMHO, from specs and a recent visual inspection of GT3 @PIR) as high performance as the Ferrari system.

    Nope. Completely unnecessary. Here's a clue .... brakes don't stop you .... tires do. Bone cold the CCBs will easily activate ABS. <shrug>

    On a "cool day?" Well, "cool" in Alaska is certainly bloody cold in Oregon <chuckle> but .... the answer remains .... Nope!

    Pardon me for sounding argumentative but do you have any hands on experience? I think not. Perhaps Porsches? But I would still bet that CCB equipped Porsches brake just fine hot, cold, cool, etc.

    I'm VERY sensitive to brake squeal. The CCBs when hot, while threshold braking, may emit a quiet squeal. Short duration and so quiet one has to be listening for it.

    Although it's possible that the pad compound has changed from the Modena CCBs and that Modenas squealed (i hadn't noticed in re the CS cars i've drove against) if your F430 CCBs squeal loudly and under normal use .... there's a prob.

    WTS, I have noticed a loud squeal, a screech and other noises from time to time due to dirt, etc. On all cars and bikes i've owned. <shrug>

    Nope. Nuff said.

    It would be a deal breaker for me. Did I mention that I can't stand "brake squeal?" LOL!

    Regards,

    Richard.
     
  18. RAllen

    RAllen Formula Junior

    Aug 27, 2006
    445
    Rogue Valley, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Richard Allen
    Excellent point!!! With the possible exception of Pirelli slicks. According to Blocktrader they are available in 19s.

    Regards,

    Richard.
     
  19. motion

    motion Formula Junior

    May 4, 2005
    567
    At the track
    Full Name:
    Motion
    Say what????

    You're going to get some disagreement with this... I've been caught out a few times now with cold brakes. The car WOULD NOT stop at a predictable rate, no matter how hard I was standing on the brake.
     
  20. RAllen

    RAllen Formula Junior

    Aug 27, 2006
    445
    Rogue Valley, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Richard Allen
    I wouldn't be surprised. And it's no prob at all. Lotsa variables. :)

    I'd certainly have the car looked at. Please do so. If necesssary contact Chris Gallagher @FNA tech support. Very helpful gent.

    I repeat; the brakes should perform well enuff when cold to activate ABS (TTBOMK, I am not an expert but I am a certified HPDE Instructor).

    I should add for those who aren't as knowledgeable as you and I that reduced braking ability and specially predictable braking is highly subjective. Ergo: W/o more data all I can say is .... (it bears repeating) .... please have the brakes checked!

    Regards,

    Richard.
     
  21. $$$=SPEED

    $$$=SPEED F1 Veteran

    Aug 18, 2004
    5,330
    Portland, Or. USA
    Full Name:
    Depends who's asking
    My CS's CC brakes never made any noises nor do I feel needed to warm up to much to work well? Yes they work better warm but even cold they worked 2 times better in terms of stopping power than my old 99 360.

    The other plus is they last forever if you do not track to hard. I have heard that they last 3 times longer than the standard brakes? In turn, making them a much more cost effect item than they appear.

    Just my Opinion

    Mike
     
  22. frefan

    frefan F1 Veteran

    Apr 21, 2004
    7,370
    I wish I had them on the 575. On the strad they're amazing. They dont squeal (I've had 2 sets of rotors). I always warm that car up, not only the brakes but also the engine and tires. The 575 has steel brakes and squeels like a stuck pig (even after 10k miles). But that car does not stop well.
     
  23. Baasha

    Baasha Formula 3

    Jun 20, 2004
    1,186
    NorCal
    The CC brakes are absolutely fantastic in more ways than one; as described in the previous replies. Also, many people most likely get them for "street" cars mainly for the LOOKS.

    They stop on a dime once warmed up and that's all that's needed. End of story.

    Also, pranSINGH Horse.. your F-chat handle cracked me up.. "pranSINGH Horse" LOLOL..
     
  24. Blocktrader

    Blocktrader Karting

    Nov 5, 2003
    204
    Boca Raton
    Full Name:
    Mike R.
    This question comes up from time to time. My opinion based on both street and track experience is as follows:

    For the street, steel for the best feel/performance. Carbon for the best appearance. However, on the street most will not notice.

    For the track the steels need alot of work. The carbons don't. The carbons look alot cooler at the track because the guys there will notice. Side note: at a track day a CS was two cars in front of me in the tech line. I was aproached about this exact issue. Specifically why my brakes were smaller. I had to go out and run extra hard to redeem my poor picked on car.
     
  25. RAllen

    RAllen Formula Junior

    Aug 27, 2006
    445
    Rogue Valley, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Richard Allen
    ROTFLMAO! You must realize the images your choice of words and phrasing bring to mind, right?

    Regards,

    Richard.
     

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