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Carbon Ceramic Brakes - Good or Bad for Resale??

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by 483hp, May 29, 2006.

  1. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    That was for a single CCM rotor.

    Iron rotors = $825/ea.
     
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  3. ROLOcr

    ROLOcr Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2005
    619
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    ROLO
    thanks daniel
     
  4. absent

    absent F1 Veteran
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    Nov 2, 2003
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    mark k.
    Besides better brakes(longer lasting,no fade),CC will reduce unsprung weight quite significantly,lower weight on wheels equals better ride and performance.
    I am definitely ordering them on 599.
     
  5. 483hp

    483hp Formula 3
    Owner

    Aug 17, 2005
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    www.fca.alberta.com
    Maybe I am wrong, but this doesn't seem to be a significant issue to date for CS owners. Atleast nobody seems to raise much of a stink about it when the car is sold. Maybe more of a future issue for less race-minded owners now that it is a regular item on the options list.
     
  6. spidermanUK

    spidermanUK Formula 3

    Feb 26, 2005
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    Clive
    You aren't the first to state "the stopping distance is shorter", but what are you basing this statement on? Where is the actual evidence to support this? Are you saying that with 2 otherwise identical 430s, the CC equipped car would stop in a shorter distance, and if so, how much shorter from 30mph and 60 mph?

    And how do you respond to this earlier statement ???
     
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  8. ROLOcr

    ROLOcr Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2005
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    one disadvantage as you all know is that when cold CC brakes are not very efective, the owner almost lost it a couple of times due to this
     
  9. spidermanUK

    spidermanUK Formula 3

    Feb 26, 2005
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    Clive
    Daniel
    Do you know why your customer enquired? Was it just idle curiosity on his part, or does he actually need to replace them, if so, do you know what mileage he's done?
     
  10. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    Yes. He had a minor issue with "rubbing". That is, the car rubbed into something harder than a chamois.
     
  11. TBond8

    TBond8 Karting

    Feb 7, 2006
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    CT,CA, Europe
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    Thomas
    To answer the question of shorter distance. I will look for the article from the british magazine. If my memory serves me correctly the distance is enough to make a difference. As an example if the CC brakes stop you in as little as 10 feet shorter than the steel brakes that is enough to change a situation from an accident with serious damage to no accident with no damage.

    The stats that I have seen are on Porsche 911s without and 911s with CC brakes. As it seems these brakes are new for Ferrari. I am not sure if there is any stats yet.

    To answer the question of steel brakes being good. I am not saying that the regular brakes are bad or not good. The regular brakes have been designed for the car so they work well. It just seems to me that people that would have a choice of steel or CC would choose CC (obviously with no expense). The way the feel and how quickly they bite is terrific.

    In all the Porsches I have compared the steel brakes are very good but the Carbon brakes are just better. As a person who likes technology and performance driving I can feel the difference in the way Carbon brakes feel.

    I admit I have not compared the steel brakes vs the carbon brakes on Ferrari. As I am considering either a CS or F430. I am looking forward to the difference.

    Thanks,
     
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  13. 483hp

    483hp Formula 3
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    Aug 17, 2005
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    I have been told that Porsche's with PCCB's are discounted. I can't say that I am surprised given the bad press and Porsche's public statement recently.

    F-cars appear to be unaffected. As I mentioned before, it doesn't seem that CS buyers are particularly stressed out about brake replacements when they are searching for a car. So perhaps this is a non-issue with respect to F-cars since the Brembo's Ferrari is using have a different composition to Porsche's PCCB system.

    It is good that they are becoming more popular. That will eventually bring the price down and may lessen the issue if it becomes a larger concern later.

    I have to admit I am in the camp that ordered the CC brakes. I certainly don't want to depreciate my car because I ordered the upgraded brakes!
     
  14. J. Salmon

    J. Salmon F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Aug 27, 2005
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    As someone who (a) would be in the cost-is-an-issue camp and (b) would love to someday get a CS (or I guess I could slum it with a 430), I can say that personally I would like to have the carbon brakes.

    With regular street use, the rotors will never need to be replaced. The pads are expensive, but they will also last a looong time on the road. With light track use (that would be me) I am likely to see very little rotor wear and the pads will still probably last a good while. I bet the difference for me would be negligible, and worth having them - just because. It would be an area to look at if I were buying a used car, thus worn rotors and/or pads would significantly impact the price.

    From what I understand, the Ferrari carbon brakes and the Porsche carbon brakes are quite different, and I have heard (surprisingly) that the Ferrari setup is superior. I have absolutely nothing with which to back that up. But I like to think it's true :)
     
  15. Harmonyautosport

    Harmonyautosport Formula Junior

    Apr 28, 2006
    681
    New York
    Ceramics will be a plus in resale but at the same time will scare off buyers when they get a price to replace them. Alot of my racing customers have switched over to steel brakes, its far to expensive to replace them every race and they suck on the track from what im told.
     
  16. 483hp

    483hp Formula 3
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    Aug 17, 2005
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    Brembo sources the same CC brake system for the MB SLR. I wonder if you can source pads from your neighborhood MB dealer?
     
  17. kyleseyz

    kyleseyz Karting

    Jan 24, 2005
    184
    Seattle
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    Kyle
    No. You are wrong. CC brakes will not stop you faster. You can only stop a car as fast as the tyres will let you. Even drum brakes can lock up the tyres if pressed hard enough, you get the CC brakes so you can (I know this stuff has pretty much been said, just reiterating)

    1.stop harder longer on the track. There's a reason why track sessions only go for like 35 minutes at a time, that's because you experience PAD FADE (fluid fade usually happens first, which is a WHOLE different story) because the specific heat capacity in the metal pads are FAR LOWER than the ceramic ones, meaning they take much more energy to change their temperature, meaning they stay cooler longer, meaning you AVOID PAD FADE.

    2.decrease unsprung weight, which is probably THE MOST IMPORTANT thing you can do (after tyres) to increase cornering performance, carbon ceramics weigh FAR less than traditional setups.

    All this being said, the price of CC replacements is RIDICULOUS! I can't believe that expendable products like rotors can cost 32 grand to replace! However, it's a shame that resale values should take a hit if the CCs are on the car, because they are quite snazzy!
     
  18. J. Salmon

    J. Salmon F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Aug 27, 2005
    4,309
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    I wonder if the price will fall in the future. Right now, CC brakes are cutting edge. How about in 10 years? Will Brembo just be cranking out discs to fit all sorts of cars running them, or for upgrades? Probably. Once the demand is there, the costs will drop.
     
  19. Dan Ciezniewzky

    Dan Ciezniewzky Formula 3
    BANNED

    Sep 6, 2004
    1,334
    Indianapolis

    so you're telling me a 15k option cost 40k to replace?? paaaalllllleasaaaaa
    Ive heard its 35k for the ENZO though, deffently NOT the F430
     
  20. ROLOcr

    ROLOcr Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2005
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    Costa Rica
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    ROLO
    remember car manufacturers make more money from maintanance rather than by just selling the car

    i just checked the 360 and 360CS brochures, the one for the CS says that CC brakes on the CS will make you stop faster BUT since the CS is lighter than the normal 360
    so this migth confuse people about braking distances between a 360 with steel brakes as to a CS with CC brakes
     

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