Carbon Fiber Wheels | FerrariChat

Carbon Fiber Wheels

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Jo Sta7, Nov 24, 2015.

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  1. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Veteran
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    Have a 458, I am thinking about putting aftermarket carbon fiber wheels on. A company out of Bethesda called Vitesse Au Dessus will make OEM style hollow carbon wheels. Has anyone put carbon fiber wheels on their car and if so, worth it?
     
  2. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    I have not done it but have looked into it a bit. Worth it? I suppose that is up to you.

    I believe the wheels you are looking at are around 35k a set and weigh "as little as 13.2lbs for a 20" wheel"

    Factory 458 wheels are 22.8lb fron 25.3lb rear as far as I can tell.

    So, on a front wheel you would save 9.6lbs ea.

    Thing is, the tire is going have a greater influence on rotational inertia and that is 22lbs front 33lbs rear for PSS in stock sizes.

    Honestly I don't think the money spent could justify the performance gain, but they are very neat!
     
  3. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
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    I think you also have to consider the stock electromagnetic shocks are setup for a certain expected range of mass/ force from the stock wheels. I'm sure they allow for some variance, hence many can swap to other aftermarket wheels. I wonder if these being so light could be outside that range. Although I am not very well versed on CF used for wheels, I would worry that CF likely would crack upon impact vs metal bending. Neither being good but I would take bending over breaking when on the road. Their website shows some gorgeous pictures though. Looks like top notch work.

    Vitesse | AuDessus - Bespoke Handcrafted Carbon Fiber Exteriors, Interiors, Components and Monocoques
     
  4. Statler

    Statler F1 World Champ

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    One of the best changes ever for a motorcycle. For a road car? Can't see it but haven't ever driven a car with them so can't say.
     
  5. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Veteran
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    I haven't seen the wheels in person but loved the quality in pics and have been impressed w customer service so far. Not sure if I'll pull the trigger on my 458. If I owned a 918 though I'd 100% have a set. Same style as the regular wheels (which I love) and probably 30 pounds lighter than even the weissech wheels (up to 60 pounds lighter than the standard wheels). That could lead to tangible performance gains while looking amazing.

    What I've been told is each pound saved in unsprung mass translates to 4-5 pounds savings of sprung mass. It would be like lightening my 458 200 pounds. Not sure if I 100% buy it but it has my attention.
     
  6. Statler

    Statler F1 World Champ

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    What are you trying to achieve? Faster laps? Different steering feel on the street? More bling?

    What is your goal by dropping weight?
     
  7. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Veteran
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    Just general performance improvements. Braking, turn in, throttle response. I have no interest in engine mods or exhaust mods. The cars plenty loud and I love the balance. The wheels seemed a good way to improve performance without touching anything mechanical.
     
  8. Rosso328

    Rosso328 F1 Veteran
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    Hmmm. I don't know. The figures posted above suggest a maximum weight savings of less than 10 pounds per wheel. So while that would make a difference in unsprung weight for suspension response, and a difference in rotating mass for acceleration, I'm not convinced the difference would be noticeable for street use. For track use, perhaps.

    However, having said that, carbon fiber can be very brittle, and as already noted will crack or shatter rather than bend if met with something like a curb or a pothole.

    I would also have to ask myself why racing teams in F1 and LeMans prototypes who spend millions and millions of dollars developing their cars as close to the edge as possible, and finding weight savings measured in ounces and not pounds wouldn't choose carbon fiber wheels. That alone tells me the weight savings vs the fragility is not an acceptable trade off to them.

    I guess it comes down to aesthetics and personal taste. If you like them, go for it. But it doesn't strike me as a good performance choice.
     
  9. Statler

    Statler F1 World Champ

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    Street or track? Ask yourself what you have found lacking in the car.

    Driving courses taken? Could you improve performance more with driver track time or parts?
     
  10. Jo Sta7

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    Pre preg carbon fiber is actually pretty tough stuff. I did ask about the wheels shattering and I was told absolutely not. Tougher than magnesium and reistent to corrosion. 5 year full warranty against defect and failure.
     
  11. Rosso328

    Rosso328 F1 Veteran
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    Interesting. Thanks for sharing that.
     
  12. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Veteran
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    No problem my friend
     
  13. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Veteran
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    Both street and track. I've just started getting into tracking the car more. I'm addicted, love it. Reminds me of the Top Gear episode where the boys see if they can buy and mod cars for track purposes for the cost of a set of golf clubs. It's great fun.
     
  14. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    When I investigated this a couple 3 years ago, there were a couple of companies making thee wheels. There were more than a couple of bad reports on the durability of the wheels. Several companies had CF spokes bolted to aluminum rims to deal with durabity issues.

    F1 cars use forged magnesium wheels--even though the expense of CF wheels would be "a low cost adder" to them. Why? Durability. FM wheels can take an off track excursion and get the car back to the pits. CF wheels are not yet ready for this kind of activity.

    I think we are still a few years away from practicality.
     
  15. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Veteran
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    From what I understand, as long as the carbon fiber is pre peg and layed properly it will be stronger than magnesium. Reason it's not used in racing is the material acts as a heat sink and due to the extreme heat caused by the extreme breaking, it will melt the breaks.
     
  16. Jo Sta7

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    And cost.....they aren't cheap.
     
  17. Statler

    Statler F1 World Champ

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    They'll be very very pretty. And you'll look like a total prat when you're lapped at the track by someone in a cheap car.

    But they'll be very very pretty.
     
  18. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    I read up on it a few years back, one of the draw backs was weight distribution with carbon wheels is not very good, the lightness is in the wrong side (i.e. the center of the wheel is very light, but comparatively a lot of weight is placed on the outer edges, which at higher speeds wasn't where you want to feel the weight).

    I'll have to find it where I read it. Might have a few important points missing.

    This.


    For an F1 team, it's peanuts. If it buys them .05 they would do it. They stick with Magnesium for a reason...
    Just the wheel or the entire car if it's written off due to a wheel defect?
     
  19. Rosso328

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    Ha! Exactly! I still laugh about the time I was passed at PBIR - me in my track prepped car with harness, roll cage, adjustable dampers, passed by a Pro driver ( no need to mention names ) in a stock BMW 3 series... With passengers.
     
  20. Statler

    Statler F1 World Champ

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    I was such a badass on the bike with my knee down railing through turn 1 at VIR until an instructor passed me on the outside one handed looking back at me giving me hand signals with his free hand.

    Driver training best mod to car/bike ever.

    I don't want to knock the OP. I bet the wheels are awesome. When I was younger ibwould not have been talked out of them.

    We all love bling and there's nothing wrong with it!!! But performance is realistically down on the list of excuses for it.
     
  21. Rosso328

    Rosso328 F1 Veteran
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    I'm with you, Chris.

    To the OP, hey, if you like them, go for it and enjoy! They will look awesome! I just don't know that performance gains are enough of a justification on their own.

    But again, if you like them (and they do look very cool), go for it!
     
  22. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Veteran
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    Can't buy skill can't buy experience. Not going to be passing for LH behind the wheel any time soon 😂
     
  23. 2000YELLOW360

    2000YELLOW360 F1 World Champ

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    Haha. who was it? A friend made a comment once as to why he never started racing: I'd passed him with my wife on the back of the bike (1970 Honda 750), in a ditch while riding out to Stinson Beach on the Sunday Morning ride. There is a huge difference between looking good and going fast.


    art
     
  24. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    New shelby has them so I would wait year and see what the experience is there before buying.
     
  25. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Veteran
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    I forgot about that, great advice! Thanks!
     

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