Carbon wheels and lithium battery for 488 Pista | FerrariChat

Carbon wheels and lithium battery for 488 Pista

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by junc, Mar 6, 2018.

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  1. junc

    junc Formula Junior
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    Aug 2, 2007
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    Chicago/Laguna Beach
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    People have mentioned throughout the various threads their thoughts on the carbon wheel option on the Pista. I understand that weight difference for the track is a positive. Can someone with experience with carbon wheels tell me how much less durable they are compared to regular forged wheels on the street?

    The Pista also comes with lithium battery as standard for weight. Whats different about maintenance vs the standard battery which has parasitic draw so needs to be kept on maintainer?
     
  2. MuratC

    MuratC Formula Junior

    Jul 6, 2014
    539
    Istanbul, Turkey
    I can't comment on carbon wheels as I've never used any. But I've been using a lithium battery in my Speciale for a long time and been quite happy with it. The only thing is that you have to be very careful with these Li-batteries so their voltage don't drop below a certain point as it will most likely destroy them. So better have the car hooked to its dedicated charger all times.
     
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  3. zakeen

    zakeen Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2004
    989
    Czech Republic
    I make carbon structural parts, meaning not carbon bits just for bling. Never made a car wheel thou....

    But having many cars and driving many km's. Twice I have clipped a wheel against a gutter. Nothing bad. They sanded it and a respray was fine. However with a carbon rim and my experience with carbon. I would never drive a car with a carbon wheel that would have even a single scratch on it. Carbon does flex and you have to imagine the weight of the car that pushes against it could cause an unseen internal fracture very easily. So think of wheel replacement every time at about 9000euro each.

    Having said that, without any damage and Ferrari's knowledge of making carbon parts for F1, I think the wheel would be more then fine :D
     
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  4. SVR

    SVR Karting

    Feb 9, 2017
    188
    Moscow, Russia
    In Ferrari promo video of Pista, saying, that carbon wheels is 40% lighter. It is very big difference.
    10 years ago, i’m driving Nissan GTR with carbon-magnesium RIMAC wheels.
    It was very noticeable difference with my GTR on HRE wheels, in suspension efficiency.
    Carbon wheels is very good and unusual mod. A planning to order this wheels on my 458, if offset is ok, like on 488 +/- 10mm
     
  5. alfran

    alfran Rookie

    Mar 10, 2015
    36
    I live in the Rocky Mountains area. The majority of the roads are chip sealed. Does anyone know if occasional small rock chips (which could be at times sharp) cause damage to the finish of the carbon wheels?
     
  6. hichamaziz

    hichamaziz Rookie

    Feb 16, 2018
    19
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    hicham aziz
    i’m driving lamborghini with carbon magnesium wheels.
     
  7. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Jul 25, 2008
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    I had exactly this rim in my hand today in Geneva and I have reasonable doubts that this rim is realy a CF rim ....

    So: what is a CF rim ? Semantics ?

    To me it looks like aan aluminium rim with CF cover.

    Rim is also to heavy to be a full CF rim imo.

    A CF rim at Koenigsegg is a real full CF rim, shows no aluminium anywhere and weighs 6.5 kilos in all.

    Who can tell more about these so called CF rims ?

    Are there any experts on CF wheels ?

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  8. obbob

    obbob Formula Junior

    Aug 14, 2017
    774
    I would get carbon fiber wheels if the car was going to mostly be a garage queen or a collection piece. If it was going to be a drivers car, I wouldn’t want to deal with the ease of damage and the high cost repair anything behind a cosmetic clear coat scratch.
     
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  9. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    Sep 12, 2004
    5,222
    Montreal
    The following article is about the CF wheels on GT350R from same Oz supplier as for Pista.

    They're carbon, but for sure they must have metal inserts and probably the outer surface is cosmetic for appearance case, especially compared to the quite uneven appearance of the inner run barrel.

    https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/news/a26046/fords-carbon-fiber-gt350r-wheels-use-nasa-technology/
     
  10. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Thanx Ingenere, this article proves imo straight forward the we get not the real CF rims as proclaimed from Ferrari.

    In that article mentionned above is spoken of rims that weigh appr 33 Lbs ... how much in European kilo's is that ?

    In the Koenigsegg are real/full CF wheels of even wider dimensions than the Pista's that weigh max 6.5 kilo's ... so how can Ferrari explain that difference ?

    What's your opinion ? Are we mislead here ?

    Or may the F factory comment it sa being "semantics" ... as excuse here, we translated it "not quite correct"... :eek:
     
  11. dcmetro

    dcmetro F1 Veteran

    Nov 27, 2007
    8,923
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    Olivier
    I wonder if those wheels can be ordored in a custom carbon color...
     
  12. Baitschev

    Baitschev Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2017
    262
    Vienna
    33 lb=15 kg
    You all and i do. Not feel the different between alu and carbon wheels
    I have Carbon wheels on my Ducati 1098 and can Not feel any different to alu wheels
    Better you loss wheight by yourself
     
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  13. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Agreed ! Don't even like them myself.

    New owners may buy them anyway and also order the forged alu rims too.

    CF wheels will be stored for next sale as complete-package is what I heared as rumours ...
     
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  14. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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  15. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    Doesn't seem to be the case based on the options list posted on other thread. But as I already noted these wheels for sure have a coating (clear) for UV and other protection and on the Ford GT350R the coating is black, so I expect that they can be painted any color, just like CF body panels are painted any color.
     
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  16. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    From what I see the primary structure of the wheels IS CF, but the spokes, for example, look quite massive. Not sure what the core of the spokes is, certainly not a honeycomb or such, maybe a phenolic of some kind, or solid CF. If solid CF core, that would suggest that it's not particularly lightweight but this may be driven by the particular sizing criteria for designing a road wheel based on regulatory requirements, etc.

    Also, a wheel assembly is quite complex and note a straightforward part (except for maybe the axisymmetric rim barrel) and the joining of the spokes to the rim can't be so straightforward, and must introduce a lot of compromises. I'm familiar with aerospace assemblies and have never seen anything this complex without special fastening features to join disparate sub-assemblies.

    Ultimately, there must be some concrete weight savings to justify offering this option.
     
  17. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Sorry to hear they use that method of road surfacing. Spray hot tar, dump tons of rocks on top, let the cars do the rolling into the tar. I would not put my Ferrari anywhere near that stuff just for the risk of cosmetic damage let alone chips to structural CF.
     
  18. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
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  19. cpd1

    cpd1 Karting
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    According to the full pdf posted by TomTom77 (legend!), the weight save is 40% vs GTB standard wheels. Forged wheels have to be 15-20% lighter than standard GTB? Forged wheels being standard on the Pista, actual weight save with carbon wheels might be way less than 40% depending on weight difference b/w 488 standard alloys and Pista forged wheels.
    Great marketing but not sure it is worth cost nor potential repair issues given the actual difference. Look way cool tho:D

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  20. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

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    Forged wheels save only 13%; so compared to the forged wheels the gain from the carbon wheels is 31% (if standard is 100, forged is 87/100, carbon is 60/100, benefit of carbon vs forged is 60/87).
     
  21. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    A bit disingenuous to compare to base 488 wheels but nevertheless, per Ferrari CTO in this R&T article:

    https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/geneva-auto-show/a19149107/ferrari-488-pista-michael-leiters-interview/

    ... the more important benefit of CF wheels is a reduction in rotational inertia, which is a larger reduction that the equivalent weight reduction in percentage, though no numbers are quoted.

    This, I expect, will help in acceleration and deceleration beyond just the static weight reduction as well as reducing gyroscopic torque when wheels are steered.
     
  22. chouch

    chouch Formula Junior

    Nov 23, 2008
    423
    I don't think Ferrari is misleading anyone here.
    I do think however that your expectations in terms of weight are a bit high, and that Koenigsegg's CF are not a good point of comparison.

    Koenigsegg is a boutique manufacturer, their wheels are made on order, in house. I doubt they can make more than 20 set per year.
    Ferrari will have to use a 3rd party supplier, and they need to be able to pump out a LOT of them.

    One of the biggest difference between both is that Koenigsegg wheels spokes are hallow. The Ferrari's are not.
    The other big different is in the hub. Most CF wheels are using an aluminium hub, center-lock or 5 bolt pattern. Koenigsegg went for a 100% CF wheel design, hub included.

    At the end of the day, Ferrari will charge you 20k for a set of 4 wheels, which is really not that bad from a company that charged 4k for a CF cup holder in the F12.
    The same 20k will only get you one wheels from Koenigsegg.


    Would not order them on a Pista.
    The design is meh, the protective layer inside the rim is really ugly, and will get really dirty.
    It will be harder to find people able to repair light scratches.
    Unlike forged alu wheels, structural damages can't be seems from the naked eyes, and you need to scan the wheel to check the integrity.
    CF are really strong tho, I wouldn't worry about that. Just a bit more of a pita in terms of maintenance.
     
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