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Carey - F! Carbon neutral by 2030

Discussion in 'F1' started by TonyL, Nov 12, 2019.

  1. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
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    Anyone got a bag of nails as this will definately seal the lid on F1 as we know it.

    I very much doubt it could be CN by 2030 unless LH & Co use pedal power. Apparently the biggest polluter is travelling around the globe to all the different venues, i wonder what genius worked that one out.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/50382898

    Tony
     
  2. PerKr

    PerKr Karting

    Oct 10, 2007
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    They don't have much choice given the developments in europe. They either try to go green or F1 is dead by then. Unless things change of course. But european governments are mandating greener fuels and so manufacturers need to optimize for those fuels. I assume we will also see more hybrid drive before eventually going full electric.
    Transports are the main offender I suppose but the market is helping there and full electric trucks are on the way with manufacturers well aware that several governments have declared the goal of being carbon neutral by 2030.
     
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  3. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    There is also hydrogen and synthetic fuel to keep the ICE.
     
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  4. A348W

    A348W Formula Junior

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    I think they need to do something; else people will be after them, so better to be proactive about it.

    Not sure how; but it will be interesting to see.

    let’s just hope they don’t go electric for the cars as this will end F1! Formula e is like watching paint dry!

    Besides since when are electric vehicles really green, and exactly how far would any potential environmental benefit they might have go to offset the rest of the circus activities?!

    As for electric trucks, some but at least some are seeing the other alternatives with hydrogen, with Hyundai planning on a couple of thousand hydrogen trucks in Switzerland in the next few years!!

    At the end of the day, the social demand to reduce ones pollution/carbon is here, so let’s get on with it!
     
  5. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    Yeah, suuure. Unless they do only European races and travel by train, I don´t have a clue how they´re going to do it. But talking is cheap and Liberty probably won´t be around in 2030, so why not, yeah, of course, carbon neutral.
     
  6. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

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    There is an interesting stat in the article: the cars only produce 0.7% of F1´s pollution. So the issue is not what kind of engine they use, but how they move all those guys around the world and light the night races.
     
  7. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Harrassing individual car owners is easy for governments that want to look like they are doing something.
    That's why they push us to buy hybrid and electric cars.
    Tackling other pollution culprits like the shipping industry or airlines will be harder because there is no easy solution !
    I could mention also that some countries still live in the 19th century with coal-fired power stations ...
    In the big scheme of things, F1 is not really a problem.
     
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  8. TexasF355F1

    TexasF355F1 Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Stupid.
     
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  9. tomc

    tomc F1 World Champ

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    Unless I'm mis-remebering, most hydrogen is still made by steam reforming of natural gas. Which is pretty energy intensive. Plus, natural gas minus hydrogen = coke AKA carbon, which is often burnt off the catalyst to make CO2. Splitting water by sunlight isn't ready for prime time from what I've seen. I recall reading that you can use the intense heat from a nuclear reactor to thermally split water, but I think green energy advocates might plotz at that!
    Fun times ahead, no doubt about it...T
     
  10. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Three Time F1 World Champ
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    This guy is an *******. Roger Penske should be running F1, not these corporate media dilettantes .....
     
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  11. Ney

    Ney F1 Rookie
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    I am guessing the F1 will be Carey neutral before it is carbon neutral........
     
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  12. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    What other critters, large or tiny, use the "rationale" that we use to counter natural selection and keep increasing their populations as we do? (well, maybe elephants and whales try to help their weak, but they're populations are not growing in leaps and bounds :))
    If the "survival of the fittest" applied to us, we wouldn't have the numbers of "carbon footprint" producers poisoning our closed system. 'Not heartless, just facing reality.
    Even the racing community (participants and fans) is shrinking (percentage of the general population). Is this not an example of natural selection? Such is the "nature" of competition for survival. (although, our "rationale" of BoPing is putting up a wonderful :rolleyes: fight, tho' destroying true competition)
    Just food for thought.
     
  13. WPOZZZ

    WPOZZZ F1 Rookie

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    F1 will be carbon neutral because it won't be around.
     
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  14. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Get woke. Go broke.

    Has Liberty done anything right since it took over? I had some hope when they hired Ross Brawn, but he’s been a big disappointment too.
     
  15. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    To be fair, they inherited a big mess that will take time to fix. We'll see how the new rules and the new concorde agreement work.

    But so far, they're following Bernie's tendency to add races that nobody cares about and talking BS. At least Bernie's BS was funny.
     
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  16. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    The future of F1 is more uncertain than ever, and it's not Libeerty's fault, but the circumstances and the changing automotive world.

    Read this about an eventual Mercedes pull-out in 2021:

    Mercedes likely to stay in F1 after 2021, but "not a given"

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-future-presence-2021-wolff/4595817/


    Mercedes boss Toto Wolff says that there are no guarantees the works teams will stay in Formula 1 after 2021, but all the indications are pointing to it remaining.
    With discussions ongoing between Mercedes and F1 owners Liberty Media over new terms for a commercial rights deal, Wolff says that parent company Daimler is weighing up many aspects about its continued involvement as a team owner.

    And amid some challenging times for car makers amid the move to electric cars, Wolff admits the decision-making process is complicated.

    Speaking exclusively to Motorsport.com about what happens to Mercedes from 2021, Wolff said: "Everything indicates that we will stay. But it's not a given.
    "We are in the middle of discussing the new Concorde Agreement. In connection with this - and independently of it - we are discussing the development of the automobile and its effects on sport."


    Elaborating on what factors are at play when it comes to making the decision, Wolff said: "In which direction is the automotive world developing? In what form is Formula 1 relevant as an entertainment and technology platform? As a brand whose first car was a racing car, do we want to stay on this platform in the long term?


    "There is the Ferrari model that says: 'We will do it forever. We build racing cars and we build road cars'. The other model is to say: 'We had a very successful run. There's nothing more to prove. We're doing something else now'. Both are absolutely plausible strategies."

    While some have suggested that Mercedes' run of title successes could leave its chiefs thinking there is little more to gain from remaining in F1, Wolff sees it differently.
    "If you do a survey today to see which Formula 1 teams are the most successful, most people will say Ferrari," he said. "That's simply because Ferrari has been at the forefront and competitive for 50 years.

    "I think at a time when everything is so short-term, it's the sustainability of success that makes the strategy much more credible than fast in and out. Success can also fluctuate at times - it can also happen that you come third.
    "Of course, as a brand used to success, you have to endure keeping your own expectations realistic and calibrating that you can't win every year. That's not easy. I have to start with myself: How can I endure that?"

    With Mercedes having already put in place customer engine supply deals with McLaren, Racing Point and Williams from 2021, Wolff suggests Mercedes would be unlikely to continue to provide power units if it felt F1 no longer suited its purpose.

    "We have four teams that we supply, including ourselves," he said. "You can be only pregnant or not pregnant, not half pregnant. So either we participate in the platform or we do not."
    Pushed on the issue of staying as an engine supplier if its work teams quit, Wolff said: "I don't think anyone would decide that [to leave F1]. But if that were to happen, it [stopping customer supplies] would be a consequence.”



    If Mercedes was to pull out, that would completely redraw the F1 map, and leave several teams without engines.
    As other manufacturers' involvement in F1 is not certain to last (Renault, Honda anyone?), Liberty could find itself with a crisis on its hands.

    From Toto's interview, I retain mostly this:
    "There is the Ferrari model that says: 'We will do it forever. We build racing cars and we build road cars'. The other model is to say: 'We had a very successful run. There's nothing more to prove. We're doing something else now'. Both are absolutely plausible strategies."
    To me, that sounds like an early warning of Mercedes leaving F1 in years to come, even more if they achieve the records they want.
     
  17. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

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    I have said for many years and is the only reason why the hybrid era was introduced and that was for R&D work - period.

    F! is the quickest way to bring a design from the "drawing board" to racing and test it to its limit. Once these top manufacturers have gleaned enough base knowledge and trained the first generation of engineers, the rest will follow and they will dump F!.

    F! will be all electric in years to come, Formula E is the precursor and most of the top F1 designers are involved in the background somewhere.

    As for F! becoming CN by 2030, pigs will fly before then. The whole renewable energy theory is so flawed its untrue.
     
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  18. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    A lot of what you said is true, although I have reservation about F1 switching completely to electric so early.
    If F1 allows different energy modes, like hydrogen, synthetic fuels, etc ... the ICE can survive for quite a long time.
    In that case, F1 would be a true R&D tool and keep the manufacturers interested.
    Let's face it, the manufacturers would like to keep some ICE cars in their range, as electric won't solve every transport problem.
    At the moment, F1 is too restrictive, and the 2021 rules will make things worse. Also, a budget cap is a brake on development.
    The development has to be seen in the power plant department (not only in aero), with more liberal technical regulations, that allow more freedom of design, and do away with grid penalties for components changes, etc
    Then F1 would be a true laboratory.

    BTW, I like it when you write F! instead of F1.
     
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  19. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

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    I am very sceptical about the new rules and the new influx of brains behind the 2021 philosophy. Brawn & Co are no dumb bunnies but have they over complicated it, is it necessary?

    Anyone who wants to see a lesson in close racing should look back on Schumacher and Alonso 2005 San Marino GP.

    They may be able to fiddle with figures regarding zero carbon on the logistics side of F!, but what about all the production and support. I have heard of special components being flown by private jet from a factory for race day. :-0

    Its going to take a very slick snakeskin oil ..... person to convince me.
     
  20. SimCity3

    SimCity3 Formula 3

    How exciting !

    A sport that dances to politician's agendas.
     
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  21. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    Significance thereof? They finished 0.215 sec.apart; 3rd, 10.481 sec. back. One race.
    FA got WDC with 133 points; MS 3rd, 62, less than half.
    I can point at Monza, 1971...a ding-dong all race long. Four cars crossed the line within 0.18 sec.!, 5th only another 0.48 back! One race.
    Stewart took WDC 62 to 33 (again nearly double) over Peterson
    My pernt is, the racing hasn't changed much. For that matter, on average, it's closer now than it has been.
    Sure, there's the ones that we wait for...nay...long for. The special ones. "Legislate" it to happen every race, then what's the point? A "show", not racing.

    'May as well save all that carbon and go to the local movie theatre (better yet, NetFlix it at home....)

    Oh! And don't forget to breathe less. ;).
     
  22. PerKr

    PerKr Karting

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    As I recall it there were many seasons in which at least the WDC wasn't decided until the final race though. The 1994 season was a pretty close one, as was the 1996, 1997 and 1990 seasons.
     
  23. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    Yeah, they happened naturally. Real racing, not close racing orchestrated by "leveling the playing field". Leave it alone, it will happen again and we can really enjoy when it does. ;)

    Back to "Carbon Control".

    I was mistaken previously. As long as we, and cows, stop breathing, the planets problems will return to the other critters on it's surface. :D
     
  24. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

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    Taking a deep breath - The point is that the cars where able to follow much closer than they are today so with 2021 rules we havent advanced much at all if they are trying to emulate the same close battles!
     

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