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Carrozzeria VIGNALE - Ferraris bodied by Vignale

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Marcel Massini, Dec 14, 2008.

  1. 275gtb6c

    275gtb6c Formula 3
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    Good eyes! As this is the Vignale thread I can’t commend on this....

    Ciao
    Oscar
     
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  3. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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  4. Atombender

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  5. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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  7. Atombender

    Atombender Karting

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    But it's 0232AL, correct? Just not the original blue.
     
  8. ursoenzo

    ursoenzo Formula Junior

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  9. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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    I thought the nose of 0232/AL was not the original one but I found this Michelotti's drawing that changed my mind.

    But may be the restorer should have kept the vertical bumpers during restoration ? Also I doubt the air intake on hood was original. Who knows ?

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  10. Dustin Wetmore

    Dustin Wetmore Karting

    Mar 31, 2011
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    I don't normally post on forums but I felt that continued misrepresentation is further clouding an already murky past for 0232 AL.

    I'm solely focused on the color of the exterior body.

    There has been s surprising amount of feedback voiced relative to the color selected for this restoration. Most of it is negative in nature and less than fairly expressed. To my knowledge and to this point in time, this feedback has had no basis in fact - only subjective jabs. The color wasn't chosen on whim. The color was chosen based upon physical evidence discovered during the disassembly and paint removal phases of restoration.

    The first step is research. Over several months, the team reached out to an international group of researchers and historians in an attempt to determine the original color of the car. Not one person was able to shed any light on the question. No photographs, no documentation be it from Ferrari, Wild or Vignale was uncovered and supplied for examination. Sometimes that happens. You adjust and revert back to the car in the hope it will speak it's truth.

    We spent hours scouring the body and chassis of 0232 AL for evidence of original paintwork. Every car we restore is examined this way regardless of how many times the car has been restored or what color the car is ultimately painted. The first bit of physical evidence we discovered was at the left tail lamp opening - only over-spray. Same for the right side of the body. Not conclusive evidence but it was a start.

    A wisp of blue was also discovered at the back side of the dash panel. As we know, Vignale tendency was to paint the dash panels body color. Physical sample #2. Still not 100% conclusive evidence but we're getting warmer.

    We examined the upholstery frames in an off chance those components were left fit to the body when it was painted originally. Physical evidence #3. The tab was located at the front of the rear seat cushion frame. It's job is to locate the rear seat cushion to the frame.

    Lecher paint charts were examined. Our understanding is that Lechler was a standard paint product supplier to Vignale in this time period. The chart presents us with several posibilities which match our evidence and clearly were available in period.

    This seat frame tab was the largest and most consistent sample discovered. The color was matched by several sets of eyes (two of our painters included), outdoors, in direct sunlight with a modern color map book. Several spray outs were performed and matched to the tab by those same several sets of eyes before a final decision was made.

    No deception has been employed. The color decision was not the product of ego or vanity. The color was matched to physical evidence found on the car in question. These are the facts.

    If true, verifiable physical evidence has come to light subsequent the restoration of 0232 AL which validates another color from a different color family, I'm happy to view it and be corrected.

    I appreciate your time in examining the physical evidence.

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  12. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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    Great to see the interesting story about the blue colour !

    Regarding to the Michelotti drawing (always accurate), here is how 0232/AL should be in my humble opinion... (no air scope on hood and vertical bumpers fitted.)

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    Great to see the story about the blue colour !
     
  13. Timo Seefeld

    Timo Seefeld F1 Veteran

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  14. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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  15. GrrenBayDino

    GrrenBayDino Rookie

    Sep 24, 2013
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    #638 GrrenBayDino, Apr 11, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
    I noted with interest the discussion of the color of 0232 AL and the comprehensive and thoroughly compelling explanation of Dustin Wetmore as to the choice of color. The commentary that the color may not be as original is merely conjecture. In restoring this one-off car, the color chosen was based upon concrete fact. A discerning forensic examination was performed throughout the disassembly of the car as part of the complete restoration, and numerous original paint traces were found in the color that it currently presents in. Furthermore, photos of these paint traces were provided to Marcel Massini who then gave his opinion as to the color to use on the car, and provided the Lechleroid original paint chart that demonstrated that color. That was the color the car was then painted. We have all the communication with Mr. Massini, who was paid a consulting fee for his services, regarding this. Mr. Massini provided extensive information, history and consultation on all manner of issues as to the car. We have in our restoration archives hundreds of emails from Mr. Massini in that regard. The color was not chosen by whim or fancy or conjecture; rather it was chosen based upon concrete physical evidence.


    As Dustin Wetmore has stated in this trail, when he supervised the restoration, he used discerning techniques and definitive approaches to make certain that everything on the car was accurate as built, including the color. Mr. Wetmore is a well-respected member of the 20-person IAC/PFA council and heads up MPI, one of the most prestigious Ferrari restoration facilities in the world, and which company to my knowledge holds the most podium awards for Ferraris in the history of Pebble Beach.


    The goal in restoring this car was to make it is absolutely authentic as possible using any and all evidence gathered during the process and in consulting with literally hundreds of authorities, historians and experts around the globe. There was some struggle in that there are no in-period photographs of the car, at least discovered yet, despite consulting with virtually every authority on the planet, including Mr. Massini. However, the original design drawing of Giovanni Michelotti was located which vindicate the car’s configuration in all significant respects.


    We preferred actual hard evidence as to originality in making our color choice rather than the complete whimsical conjecture of those who think that some other color would’ve been more appropriate. As far as the rest of the configuration of this vehicle, we are proud to state that it was awarded first in Ferrari class at the Salon Prive 2019, with a perfect 100 point score, the chief class judge being none other than Chris Current, at that time the head of the IAC/PFA, Chief Judge at Cavallino Classic and Chief Ferrari Judge at Pebble Beach. Furthermore, Ferrari itself has declared the car to be 100% authentic in every respect as the car has been “Red Book” Classiche certified.
     
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  16. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    A couple of observations on the differences between the car and Michelotti's rendering. This is absolutely nothing against the restoration but is about however the internal execution process happened inside Vignale. It is possible that Micheloti was quite involved in the interpretation of his work but it is also possible that the Vignale craftsmen took his drawing and "made it work" as they saw fit. I do not remember coming across anything that described their working process.

    The rendering had chrome trim on the wheel lips.
    The body side cross section was fuller.
    A smoother transition into the rear fender bump at the door, also the transition was further forward
    RH drive
    Front turn signals directly below the headlights
    A more delineated change from the grill area to the surrounding area

    Michelotti's drawings are typically exaggerated in length and squashed down so there was always going to be a lot of interpretation needed. As mentioned above, he might have been heavily involved in this or he mostly "kicked it over the wall" as he moved onto whatever was next for him to work on.
     
  17. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    Not to mention missing vent windows or door bottom not extending below rocker panel molding and several other details.

    Also, could the aforementioned drawing be just one of perhaps several(?) draft proposals which didn’t “make the cut” or was this designer known to only draw just one/final ?
     
  18. ERault

    ERault Rookie

    Aug 8, 2007
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    I don’t want to hijack current discussions but I feel this thread would be the best place to ask. 250 MM chassis 0260MM is a well known car with it’s peculiar shrunken sills and chrome pieces under the front wings. It went to Phil Hill in early 1953.



    Do you know of another car that share the same features ? The reason I ask is that I just spotted what looks like a perfect twin to 0260MM in the 1953 Varese-Campo dei Fiori hillclimb (in the book on the event by Malanga & Colombo, page 245). It was run on june 14th, at a time 0260MM was already in the US. It is given as a 212 Export, but I found no matching candidate.

    Thanks
     
  19. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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    0182/ED...
     
  20. ERault

    ERault Rookie

    Aug 8, 2007
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    That was fast :)
    Thank you Aardy, I did not expect a rebodied car.
     
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  21. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

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  22. GrrenBayDino

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    Sep 24, 2013
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    Yes indeed, the bumper guards that were with the car and seen in photos on and/or with with the vehicle for the five decades plus during which photos exist have been re-joined with the bumpers. Likewise, white wall tires added to conform to the recently discovered Michelotti original design drawing for the vehicle. The car was honored greatly this weekend at the 30th Cavallino Classic, winning five awards: Platino First in Class, the Roush Memorial Cup award for the best research in restoring a Ferrari, the major award for the Finest 12 Cylinder Ferrari, the Best in Ferrari Class at Cavallino Sports Classic Sunday, as well as the overall Best of Show for Finest GT Car at that show. Many thanks go out to all the skilled craftsmen and women, technicians, historians, automotive scholars, the Revs Center, Heinrich Kaempfer, Emiliano Torkar, Dustin Wetmore, David Carte, Alfredo Vignale Zanellato, Edguardo Michelotti, Gigi Barp, Ferrari Classiche, Chris Current, Donovan Leyden, Steve Ahlgrim, Alan Boe,
    the Museo Ferrari, and the list goes on, who contributed greatly to the resurrection of this fantastic Speciale to its original configuration.
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  23. GrrenBayDino

    GrrenBayDino Rookie

    Sep 24, 2013
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    Neglected to send out a special thank you to Marcel Massini who contributed much research on the vehicle, including hundreds of documents and emails, was instrumental in selection of the color including providing a Lechler original paint chart and viewing the color evidence of the vehicle and recommending color choice appropriate to that evidence, and most especially for the discovery last year of the historic original Giovanni Michelotti drawing in a private collection in Germany, which documents in every significant respect the authenticity of the vehicle and that it was specifically designed by Michelotti for its first owner, Otto Wild, close friend of Enzo Ferrari, who selected him to receive the first of only six 342 Americas, the one and only example coach built by Alfredo Vignale.
     
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  24. PG1964

    PG1964 Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2010
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    Your observations are wrong because the rendering is a proposal made for the client and the technical drawings are a completely different thing, expressly made for the coachwork. Particularly the 1:1 drawings. You can't build a body following a rendering only....
     
  25. calder1

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  26. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

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    Couple of Vignale bodied cars owned by Brazilians in period.

    Race number 10 driven by Aylton Varanda at the VI Circuito de Petrópolis on March 16 1958

    The other photograph is of great architect Sergio Bernardes in front of his 225S, also in the 1950's. No idea what serial numbers these cars are, or if they are still in Brazil, just thought you'd like the pictures.
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