Centre console brake warning light - 1985 Mondial QV | FerrariChat

Centre console brake warning light - 1985 Mondial QV

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by MaseratiMike, Jun 11, 2016.

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  1. MaseratiMike

    MaseratiMike Formula Junior

    Mar 15, 2016
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    #1 MaseratiMike, Jun 11, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi.

    Does anyone know what causes the brake warning light to appear on the centre console, by the gear shifter on a 1985 Mondial QV Euro Coupe?

    The car had a brand new replacement fuse board just before I bought it, I noticed all three plugs to the console were not plugged in (Didn't light up). So when I plugged in the connectors, it lit up the brake warning lit, washer bottle light and service light - although it has just had a service + cam belts done.

    I reset the service light switch and that is ok now, that in turn extinguished the amber status bar light on the console bottom. However the brake warning light is still on and the red status bar light on the console bottom is on.

    Just wondering if the brake warning light is triggered by a brake pads sensor or pedal brake or brake light bulb or something? (Brake fluid levels and sensors to the fluid reservoir look fine).

    Any help appreciated, the car runs and brakes fine.... is there any way to reset this light or is it depending on a failed component being replaced/wiring fixed?

    Thanks
    Mike
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  2. M. Brandon Motorcars

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    I'm pretty sure it's triggered by the sensor on the piston in the differential pressure switch. If there is a pressure difference between the two brake circuits, the light is triggered.

    Having low brake fluid will NOT trigger this light, at least initially. The brake light on the dashboard is triggered by low brake fluid. I can personally attest to this. :)
     
  3. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    On the Euro '83 QV, the check control "brake warning light" is wired in series to the brake pressure differential switch and the brake fluid level contact. If it is on, one or both of them contact the ground. It will also trigger the brakes warning light (!) on the left side of the instrument panels idiot light stack.

    The brakes warning light (P) on the right side of the instrument panels idiot light stack is triggered by either the parking brake or the front pads being worn. If it is on, one or both of them contact the ground.

    ...according to the wiring diagram...
     
  4. Alden

    Alden F1 Rookie
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  5. MaseratiMike

    MaseratiMike Formula Junior

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    I appreciate the advice so far folks.

    Do you know where can I find the brake differential pressure switch and does anyone have a photo of it?

    The brakes warning light on the dash does not come on, so I'm assuming the front brake pads are OK and the parking lamp comes off when I release the hand brake.

    I guess the next job is to bleed the brakes, check the pads.

    Is there anything which needs doing to the brake differential switch, is it detecting low pressure?
     
  6. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    #6 afterburner, Jun 13, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Below a section and a pic (from a GT4 but the Mondi's is about the same) of the brake pressure differential switch. It gets actuated by a pressure difference between the front and the rear circuits, not low pressure.

    Also a screenshot of the idiot light stack with the 2 brake warning lights I was referring to.

    Note that the lights get triggered by the switches creating a ground. In case of your front pads the light not coming on could also mean a disrupted connection (corrosion is not unusual there) between the pads and the warning light.

    A blocked switch would also return either a permanently closed or open circuit. So I would check all the switches involved if you want to know why the light stays on. It's purely 12V, no electronics involved for those as far as I can tell. Check the switches one by one with an Ohm meter.

    If you disconnect them, the lights must go out. If it stays on with all switches disconnected, there is a problem somewhere else upstream from them.
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  7. MaseratiMike

    MaseratiMike Formula Junior

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    #7 MaseratiMike, Jun 14, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I had a further look this evening....

    Firstly I took off one of the fluid reservoir caps and pressed down on the piston plunger switch to make contact i.e. to simulate low fluid level. With the key on the in the ignition (prior to actually turnine the Engine over), the warning light on the idiot stack (A) with the exclamation mark does not light up.

    So either the bulb is blown / removed! Or there is another wiring gremlin.

    I can confirm both rear brake lights work when I depress the pedal.

    Where is the differential pressure switch located on ghetto mondial? I assume it's not in front compartment?

    So photos I took are attached for reference ghetto brake switch, master cylinder etc.
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  8. MaseratiMike

    MaseratiMike Formula Junior

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    Oops predictive text! Ghetto = The
     
  9. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    #9 afterburner, Jun 15, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    On the front firewall between the wheel arches accessible from below the car (16):
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  10. MaseratiMike

    MaseratiMike Formula Junior

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    I have managed to finally solve the issue, Afterburner you were spot on:-

    1) Checked all fluid sensors and wiring in the brake/clutch fluid reservoir = Ok, disconnected wiring and checked with multimeter
    2) Brake proportioning valve = Ok, disconnected wiring and checked with multimeter
    3) The front brake pads were worn on the backs and had erroded into the sensor wire, I replaced the brake pads with new Ferodo ones without a sensor wire. = However brake failure light was still on!??
    4) Next I removed the dash speedometer+tachometer and took out the Idiot light stack - Bulb was missing from the left brake light warning (Pads)!
    5) I replaced the missing bulb = Success the centre console warning light has finally gone out!

    So in summary looks like the previous owner/seller, removed the idiot light stack Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login brake warning light bulb and disconnected all 3x centre console light plugs. To hide the fact the front brake pads were shot, also the washer bottle sensor had corroded, service light not reset etc.

    Now all of those electrical issues have been sorted!

    Thanks for the help folks.
     
  11. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

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    I seem to remember that this light comes on when a bulb has gone. I think either the brake or side light has 2 bulbs each side so if 1 bulb goes, the warning comes on the consol. You think the bulbs are ok as you see them as on. This happened to me 10 years ago and i think that was the reason
     
  12. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    With a broken stop light bulb, the orange "Stop Lights" warning light comes on, not the red "Brakes Warning Light" light.
     
  13. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

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    I was patly right then, been a while since i had a mondial
     
  14. MaseratiMike

    MaseratiMike Formula Junior

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    Understood. The bulb for the brake brakes warning light in the light stack was missing/removed, that was what was still triggering the brake failure lamp on the centre console (after I replaced the brake pads). Put a bulb in and extinguished the
    Yeah understood.... The brake stop light wasn't missing or broken.

    The bulb from the brake (!) Warning light on the idiot stack had been removed, to hide the fact the front pads were worn... So hence the missing bulb caused the centre console brake failure light to stay on... I.e. the bulb in the idiot stack light must form part of the circuit
     
  15. MaseratiMike

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    Sorry for the multiple replies.... I hate this new forum format, seems to save and screw up cached responses..
     
  16. kevinkw

    kevinkw Karting

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    Great detective work.
    MaseratiMike, where do you start on taking apart the dash? I need to get to my dimmer switch.
     
  17. MaseratiMike

    MaseratiMike Formula Junior

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    Thank you Kevin. To take the Speedo/revcounter/idiot light stack - use your fingers to prise off the black plastic bezel on the Speedo and rev counter (held in with friction tabs). That will then reveal 4x black screws which hold each counter in place and the idiot light stack in between. Once unscrewed you just pull them out by hand.... That then reveals all-sorts, sorry I can't remember where the dimmer is located, you may be able to pop it out by looking under the dash? Image Unavailable, Please Login
     

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