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Cer seeming to run on one cylinder bank occasionally.

Discussion in '360/430' started by John Skevington, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. John Skevington

    May 14, 2018
    8
    Full Name:
    John William Skevington
    Hi there,
    One of our 360s occasionally starts seemingly on one cylinder bank. If I turn it off and restart it, the problem mostly goes away, but not always. If it starts on all cylinders from startup, it does not reoccur while running during that trip. Any ideas/ solutions will be welcomed thanks. This is happening on our F1 360.
    Thanks,
    John.
     
  2. JeffPine

    JeffPine Rookie

    Apr 12, 2015
    5
    Hi John,
    My manual 360 Modena does exactly the same thing!
    My garage thinks its an immobiliser fault, but are surprised that it's the "wrong" bank of cylinders (I.e. it's the left bank of cylinders that cuts out, whereas the immobiliser works on the right hand ECU and should therefore affect the right hand bank).
    They spent some time checking the communications between the ECU's but in the end couldn't find a fault, They did suggest changing the ECU's , but that's an expensive option and no guarantee of a fix even then.
    Jeff
     
  3. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    2,665
    isle Of Man
    Full Name:
    360trev
    Jeff, John,

    In the majority of the circumstances where only one bank starts up its the immobilizer unit starting to fail, the relay becomes slow to operate and the timings go off skew. They are very temperature sensitive as they get older.

    In terms of which bank starts and which one doesn't your logic sounds plausable but not nessarily the case. It could be either side since they both have to do a negotiation handshake and if the timing is off either side could end up turning off regardless of side.

    After painstaking research and developing custom tools I have a solution which can delete the immobiliser entirely in software so you'll never have to worry about this happening again. See the IMMO OFF thread for more information. Its currently in testing phase and will be available shortly. Its a fit and forget and there will be optional extras such as keyless entry available and smart phone notifications.
     
  4. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jan 19, 2004
    6,071
    San Jose, California
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Sometimes an old/worn battery can cause this.
     
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  5. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    2,665
    isle Of Man
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    360trev
    Yes its true since if the voltages to the immobilizer box are not good enough it won't correctly powerup and can actually continuously reboot (internally) hence causing immo never to be disabled correctly.
     
  6. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Apr 4, 2010
    3,061
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Jes
    Or, it can happen if you don't wait for the "OK", and start it like a "normal" car by just turning the key to engage starter immediately - simple user error.
     
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  7. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    2,665
    isle Of Man
    Full Name:
    360trev
    Hmmm. I wonder if this wait is for the immo to wake up or the ignition computers? I'll have to jump in and simply start without waiting for OK and see what it does on my non immo car ;)
     
  8. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    2,665
    isle Of Man
    Full Name:
    360trev
    Well I just investigated...

    Your not going to believe it....

    With the immobilizer disabled YOU DONT NEED TO WAIT for the 'CHECK OK' message. Literally you can just get in the car turn the key and it starts. No nonsense, no waiting for CHECK OK, nothing. Unbelievably (and as I suspected) the check ok is to give time for the old immobilizer to boot up and send the authorization message over across a second ecu to the ignition computer. So... The delay is ONLY for the immobilizer. Car just starts like any other car. No waiting, no nonsense. Quite shocking really!
     
  9. hessank

    hessank Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 8, 2005
    956
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Fred
    Dear God Trev.
    Enough teasing!
    Get this thing to us.
    We're all holding our collective breath waiting to give you our hard earned
    money.
     
  10. John Skevington

    May 14, 2018
    8
    Full Name:
    John William Skevington
    WOW Guys.... thanks very much for all your help. It is really appreciated. I think I need your modification Trev. Could you please keep me posted on red.dino@xtra.co.nz.
    My car has a near new battery and both are kept on trickle chargers. I have also sometimes started it without waiting for the OK signal, but am making sure I don't do that now. We have only owned this Spider for about 3 months, and before we purchased it, it sat for a couple of years after the original owner unfortunately died of a major heart attack. We have known the car since new. It is a 2004 model where our other 360 is a 2001 6 speed. It does not seem to suffer from the same problem.
    Again...thanks heaps for your help.
     
  11. John Skevington

    May 14, 2018
    8
    Full Name:
    John William Skevington
    Just as another possibility....is there a chance that a faulty fuel pump relay will give the same symptoms, causing the loss of one bank of cylinders?
    Cheers,
    John.
     
  12. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Aug 25, 2005
    5,033
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    John Zornes
    I can start my car without waiting for 'CHECK OK' and I have an immobilizer. 99% of the time it works perfectly. SO, while Trev's fix may help some it isn't likely the OP's issue.
     
  13. F355Bob

    F355Bob Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    My 355 did this. Turned out it was cat ecu shutting off a bank until I restarted it. I just unplugged mine and has not been a problem for 3 years. If it is same as a 355, just unplug the cat Ecu and see if it goes away. My car is OBD1 so not a problem. Don't know you can do that on a 360 just to see if it goes away. I chased the problem for 2 years before figuring out a bad cat ecu.
     
  14. John Skevington

    May 14, 2018
    8
    Full Name:
    John William Skevington
    Great, thanks for that idea also. At the moment the problem seems to have disappeared. All ideas have been really appreciated....thanks.
     
  15. wbt

    wbt Rookie

    Nov 28, 2014
    35
    New Zealand
    One bank cutting in and out randomly during driving usually indicates cat temperature ECU or temp probe failure and is always accompanied by a slow down light. One bank cutting out at startup only is likely the immobiliser slowly giving up (old Aussie made electronics haha). Immo failure has also been shown to be partly temperature related - hence the unpredictable nature, and it's winter here in NZ so give it time it will likely resurface.

    John - I'm an NZ club member too and I will be bypassing the immobiliser in my engine ECU's via software reflash soon via 360trev method. I have all the programming hardware on order and hopefully 360trev can give a bit of his knowledge and edit my ecu flash program via email attachment which is less risky than sending ECU's all around the world.

    There are other groups around who offer to partly bypass the immobiliser but in my opinion are not anywhere near as good as what 360trev has come up with, as it still requires the immo hardware to be connected and they charge a fortune for it. Blokes like 360trev are what we need because they are motivated by keeping these cars on the road, not fleecing owners of every last $$. Don't even get me started on $900 USD to retrieve a key fob pin number!! And Ferrari's factory solution of 2 new alarm ECU's (if they even have any available), new engine ECU and 3 key fobs is predictably very expensive.
     
  16. John Skevington

    May 14, 2018
    8
    Full Name:
    John William Skevington
    Thanks very much for this info...much appreciated.
     
  17. MD355

    MD355 Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2004
    706
    Europe
    Full Name:
    MD
    My cars 360 manual starts normally, but when it comes to traffic light and coast with neutral, the revs sometimes drop to 600-700, as if one side of the V8 is not working, and then it catches back after 2-3 seconds and idles normally at 1050 rpm as it is meant from the factory...

    Very strangle indeed !!

    I have changed MAF, Lamda Oxygen Sensors, Spark coils, Spark plugs, new fuel pumps, new air intake gaskets, and checked timing too...

    But nothing fixes this...

    Furthermore, when the car is cold, sometime it backfires / pops at low rpm in the intake when I hit the gas in neutral !!

    As if one V8 bank shuts down...

    No CEL !!
     
  18. JariT

    JariT Rookie

    Nov 25, 2011
    24
    Switzerland
    My car used to go to safe mode (running one bank) time after time over several years without giving error code. This could happen when driving 60mph. Problem went a way once restarting the engine (not so nice while driving). Over the time I changed battery, MAF‘s, cam position sensors, cleaned throttle flaps, used injector cleaner, took it to service work shop.....but nothing help. As a desperate last resort I thought I need to change ECU‘s to fix the issue. I took side panels away to get access to ECU’s and right away I noticed that on right side grounding cables to frame (2pcs) were lose and I could turn the screws by hand. I immediately knew that problem was found and felf humiliated that I did not check this before. After tightening the screws all problems were gone. I’m so happy now as the problem was so simple to fix

    My recommendation is to check groundings and other cable connections as you have done almost everything else by now.
     
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