Depending what you want to do with 120k. If it were me I would hold & hold 1 more year and not do any restoration. Most collectors I know are not touching the cars / bikes right now. Put away wet "as is" has became extremely desirable. Good luck with your decision
Guilty mostly. Though my car has been re-painted at some point and I got car mechanically track ready last winter, any aesthetic restoration and mechanical mods have been very minimal.
Pardon my ignorance but why forget the 1995 355's? We were looking for 108 k euro for ours but are we missing something?
Full disclosure: I own number 24 of the 32 factory built TBs. I did a ton of research before I bought it and after, and even had meetings with the people at Ferrari who started the Challenge series. Robb, John is correct and there are some errors in your dissertation there. First, the factory built that number of challenge cars for the US market at the factory. All were issued ID plates and not all received the ID plates. Not a single one of those cars that were built as Challenge cars from the factory "had a plate but no challenge parts." They were built as challenge cars and were equipped at the factory with things like the different suspension geometry, different bushings, bumpers, ecu's, the plates to accept the cage and the harnesses, etc. Just because they were never built into race configuration doesn't mean that the ID plates were issued in error or that they "had a plate but no challenge parts," and to hear someone who's now supposedly an expert on the challenge cars say that is disappointing. I spent a fair amount of time with the man at Ferrari who created the Challenge Series and I know that he would disagree with you too. That said, let's talk about the real issue: those are only the factory built 348 Challenge cars which are special but don't account for the whole list of cars that ran in the series. I know that there is at least one more factory built US car that is not on the lists so there could be a couple more floating around. As far as the series goes, there were 150 cars raced and they received conversions all over the place, the most notable of which received their conversions at michelotto. Other countries had their cars converted in different places to race in their series. The Japanese cars are a little different too. People can debate whether or not the other cars are as good as the Factory converted cars or if any are as fast as the Michelotto converted cars but there is a clear distinction that the factory built 32 TB and 13 TS Challenge cars at the factory for the North American market and these cars do have some features that the previously built and converted cars did not - like not US spec bumpers and a different suspension geometry. How that affects value, I don't know and I don't really care. However, for someone to say that there are more than 45 factory built challenge cars by a magnitude of 3 times is just plain wrong. I know of at least one other. There could be a couple more. The remainder of the cars are converted road cars of various years.
I understand this as Socal1 saying that 95 Ch owners are holding on (not selling) to their cars. Therefore, forget about looking for one to buy for now.
Yes exactly what I am saying People are not selling their 95 355's, they are becoming investment grade cars. I got 1 to use as a weekend racer then was immediately talked out of it by friends, FNA and highly respected collectors who asked me to please leave as it "as is" Now with 3 of them I plan on getting a miata or BMW for weekend fun.
A street legal racer is just the sexiest thing every made for the street/track use. Apologies to my wife but she understands LOL
Ryan, I don't think we are on opposite sides of the discussion. I'll try to clarify my take as simply as possible so that very little is lost in changing intent from North American market to World market sentence to sentence as seemed to have happened in my last post. I am not an expert. I have never claimed that status or worried about trying to fill those shoes. I am an enthusiast owner doing research and using connections in trying to assist our community to get to the facts. I was tired of waiting to know the real deal so I started putting all of them together in one location. This has taken a lot of time. In my last post, I was encouraging all enthusiasts to learn as much as they can and become experts on the series, the cars, the drivers, and the dealer teams. The only real disappointment to discuss is that Ferrari did not leave us with records and a history in one easy to find location on what we are discussing. 23 years later, it is very difficult to find this information. So here is what I said: "Some had the factory installed features but no ID plate." - Intent - All 45 Factory North American 348 Challenge cars had the factory installed items such as roll cage mounts, suspension changes, bumpers, ecu's, etc. But not all of these North American cars received an ID plate. That plate may affect values for some. "Some had a plate but no challenge parts." - Intent - Not all cars were sold with the optional race kit with roll cage, seats, harness, fire protection, etc. Those kit parts may affect values for some. "Many of the other cars that did race in the series and had factory installed features never got a plate outside the US." - Intent - Worldwide, there were factory prepared 348 challenge cars but they did not receive an ID plate like the North American Cars. "But tracing back serial numbers for the cars that raced and their driver's, put the count at three times this old number. " - Intent - In the Worldwide series more than 150 different 348 challenge cars participated. I was not stating this number for the North American market alone. I don't see any areas for disagreement in good information from both you or me. I'm sure things will always get lost in the translation on the internet in these threads. This is less likely to happen over a great lunch or phone call. I'm glad to see the group realize that there were more than (45) cars that raced in the world 348 series. If you scroll back in old posts that ask - "How many 348 challenge were made?" Or see a for-sale ad... You always see this response - "There were (45) 348 challenge cars made." There is never any reference to this being a US or North American number or any reference that any other cars were EVER made or exist anywhere else. If you scroll back in the old posts that ask - "How many F355 challenge were made?" Or see a for-sale ad... You always see the response - "There were (72) F355 challenge cars made." or "There were (109) F355 challenge cars made." That's not the real story either. You can only see that so many times without wanting to correct the information and get to the real facts. Separate but related to the 348 Challenge cars. According to the other posts in this thread and in other threads - for desirability, Everyone and their mother wants a 1995 F355 challenge car as the "most valuable one to find" (so owners are holding onto theirs with hopes of values to further go up) but most of those 1995's are not "Type A" Factory prepared cars but were converted at dealers. So there really is a wide gap of opinion (and values placed) on Factory prepared challenge cars vs converted cars vs raced cars vs non-raced. Will this vary model to model? Probably. They all have their selling points. I'm sure there will never be one answer to the value equation but seeing the range of prices out there for each model is good information to share. Robb
Were there many factory 1995 355 challenges? I thought they were all dealer converted/installed (at least in the US)...
Tim, A one off 1994 Lamborghini Diablo SE30 Motorshow car. Significant ownership history. No miles. Unique color. It is a hard choice! TRUST ME...
Robb, I will make two points about this: 1) The ID plates make no difference whatsoever as the 45 cars are NUMBERED in numerous registries, including the Serial Number Handbook. So their identities are not in question whatsoever, ID plate or not. The dealers that sold the cars new received the plates, mostly after the cars were sold so they never got attached. My plate is at Ferrari of Houston, but that's because mine is from Ferrari of Houston. Different dealers got the plates for each car. 2) Do you know for a fact that there were Factory 348 Challenge cars prepared for other series at the factory itself, just the NA cars? I was told that there were not and that there were other places to convert regular cars, most notably Michelotto. No one disputes that there are roughly 150 348 Challenge cars worldwide of some form or another. What's in dispute is that 45 of those were built at the factory as 348 Challenge cars and not as regular street cars. As I mentioned, I know of one other car not in the 45 that is clearly a factory built Challenge car. Remember also that when the 348 Challenge Series was introduced, it was introduced for the cars to be street cars. They were supposed to be raced for a season or two and then fully put back to street cars and driven on the street. That was the true intention from day 1. They are completely different than the cars that followed for that very reason, as well as the fact that they were completely winging this challenge series thing. It was started as an attempt to sell off the extra cars. At that time, Ferrari was having serious difficulty selling cars off the showroom floor.
Back to the beginning of the thread. 1996 F355 CH for sale in Swiss, asking is Euro 500.000,-- Info: Ferrari Challenge and GT Cars
I don't think Robb has ever claimed to be an expert. He is helping the community by contributing information just like all of us are trying to do. There is a core of Challenge car enthusiasts and this forum gives us the opportunity to share information. We are fortunate to be corrected if at times we have incorrect information. My information is that the factory built cars came half way prepared to being race cars and required the dealer to spend another 65 hours finishing the conversion with the roll cage, seats etc. Some factory Challenge cars were ordered with the Challenge kit deleted. The regular 348 cars that were converted needed the Challenge kit plus about 110 hours of dealer time to prep the car. Most cars would have been converted by the dealers. The factory Challenge cars may be special but it depends on where one places value for example: Is a Challenge car without the full Challenge package worth more than a converted 348 to Challenge specs with race history? It depends on the investor. I ended up purchasing a Series Speciale (I love the tail lights) converted by a dealer and has documented race history. I place value on having the full Challenge kit and race history.
Ok but why the 1995 and not the 1996 etc? I'm just trying to educate myself. Would this be all 355 challenge cars both factory and dealer converted?
Well, who is "we" and "ours?" Are you dealer? If you're a dealer, then you should be the expert, not a bunch of hacks like us.
I'm a dealer but this is our first ferrari. We only have rare cars. As I said I'm trying to educate myself so why would you assume I'm an expert.
Do not advertise your cars for sale here. That privilege is reserved for paying sponsors. Alternatively, you may consider a "Classified" subscription: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/payments.php Your posts have been edited to remove commercial all content.
We don't have it advertised here but if we do we'll pay whatever is necessary. Still trying to establish why 1995 cars are worth more
1995 355 Challenge cars are worth more because they are the only 355 Challenge cars that come with a title and therefore can be registered. No other 355 Challenge cars are street legal.
Well,a converted street car post '95 could have a title but would still be difficult to register in certain states/areas (particularly CA) due to lack of obd2 computer as they were all outfitted with the'95 2.7 obd1 setup once converted. One could get around that without to much difficulty by converting back to a 5.2 obd2 setup from a car at a breaker, but that has to be factored into the price/desirability.
