News

Challenge Stradale TCU Upgrade

Discussion in '360/430' started by Markjayw, Feb 15, 2011.

  1. rustybits

    rustybits F1 Rookie
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Jan 28, 2007
    2,501
    Somewhere, anywhere
    Full Name:
    Eddie B
    #26 rustybits, Jan 18, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2012
    I've been fitting the cs tcu to the standard cars since the cs came out. It is a simple fit and a 20 minute job to program the pis to the correct setting. Saying "the pis should be 4.5" is like saying "this bit of carpet will fit your house". You can't just dial a number in. You have to use the clutch thickness setting to get the best pis setting, and every car is different. Some customers of mine with this tcu run 4.1 withno issues. Others won't go below 4.9 without dragging in gear when hot. All I can advise is that if you can get a cs tcu for a good price, absolutely do it. It has the best software of the lot and set right on a properely working system your clutch wear can reduce massively.

    Oh, if your clutch wear is 77% you should get them to adjust clutch thickness parameter before pis, and that they should increase it until they start seeing revolutions on the input speed shaft, then shift it slowly back until it reads zero. Then set pis. This will mean that your clutch wear reading means nothing, but that's irrelivant as you will now get the quickest shifts and maximum wear from whats left of the clutch.
     
  2. MikeR397

    MikeR397 Formula 3

    May 9, 2010
    1,409
    SE Michigan
    #27 MikeR397, Jan 29, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2012
    First, thanks rustybits for your response.

    I will be installing the CS TCU tomorrow (as well as seeing Mattyrae's new Scuderia!) at Studio 47 tomorrow. My car probably has 77% clutch wear and the neutral shifts between gears is getting progressivly (and dramatically) worse, so we'll see if this CS TCU and lower PIS setting happens to help me get a little more use out of this clutch, or I'll be back soon for a new clutch and need to figure out what clutch option to go with.

    Unless anyone has an alternative PIS suggestion, I think I'm going to set it to 4.5 (currently at 5.0), and use the following guide posted by another Fchatter in another thread...

    1. Plug in an SD2/SD3, and on the parameter page, read the "new closed clutch position" and note it down.
    2. switch off the battery (obvious, i know, but you'll be suprised the amount of times i've seen e.c.u's destroyed if this isn't done!)
    3. Swap it out for the new t.c.u
    4. switch on the battery, switch on the ignition and leave for thirty seconds.
    5. plug in the SD2/3. On the diagnosis page, write the original closed clutch position figure into it (not relevant now I guess)
    6. Adjust clutch thickness parameter as mentioned above by Rustybits, then Set P.I.S. to around 4.5
    7. Now on the diagnosis section of SD2/3, a FULL cycle test has to be carried out.
    8. Next, under diagnosis section, carry out a self-learn. At this stage, you will probably still see a blank screen.
    9. Switch off the Sd2/3 and then the ignition. Leave it for thirty seconds, then switch the ignition back on and manually run up and down the gears.
    By this time you should see your display working and gears should all be selecting as they should. If it's all o.k they just need to fiddle about getting the P.I.S setting right until the change is quick.
     
  3. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Aug 25, 2005
    6,128
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    John Zornes
    On my car you can't go beyond 2nd when not moving. At least manually, I believe you can with the SD.
     
  4. MikeR397

    MikeR397 Formula 3

    May 9, 2010
    1,409
    SE Michigan
    #29 MikeR397, Jan 31, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2012
    CS TCU is installed, and it's like magic. Instantly made shifts dramatically faster, crisper, and smoother across the entire rev band. Low/mid rpm shifts feel much crisper and no longer sluggish (although I guess I didn't realize they were sluggish before until I got the CS TCU in, although that is how these things work and I'm sure my car feels like a bus compared to a Scud!). High RPM shifts happen instantly and sound like an F1 car, much smoother and less violent then prior 7k+ shifts (although I'm not positive one could tell a difference, they were fast before 7k+ but definately felt more jerking). The best part is (in sport) it now throttle blips on downshifts across pretty much the entire rev band, were as before it only did it (in sport) when downshifting at 4.5k rpm or higher really.

    Keep in mind I went from the oldest 360 TCU to the CS TCU, so this was a huge jump. Its a fantastic mod also in that it's one that will save thousands over my course of ownership on clutch wear as well as if I ever sell my car, I can sell the CS TCU seperately for at least as much, or perhaps quite a bit more, than what I paid for it since I don't see supply going up, demand going down, and new prices at Racambi are now up to $5200 for the CS TCU. A nice change from the fact most mods return less than 10% of thier value come part or car sale down the road.

    BTW, I had PIS set at 4.7. It grabs perfectly off the line. Truthfully, I could not be more satisfied with this CS TCU upgrade.
     
  5. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,445
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
    There's one happy bunny ^^^^^^^^^ :D

    Good post!
     
  6. Living4life

    Living4life Karting

    Jun 29, 2008
    244
    Has anyone used a 430 challenge or scuderia TCU on a 430 F1?
     
  7. trainwrex

    trainwrex Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2011
    279
    Perth, Australia
    I was going to ask this question but trev could you elaborate as to why you cant use a challenge ecu? I like the thinking of being able to use one as you would be able to run test pipes etc and not get a cel from the sensors being missing..
     
  8. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Aug 25, 2005
    6,128
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    John Zornes
    Sorry, missed you said ECU so editing my response. The challenge car ECU won't work because the wiring looms are different and the programming is pretty sparse by comparison. It wouldn't have support for most of the functions that your street car has.
     
  9. nchhotu

    nchhotu Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 19, 2007
    178
    Roseville, Ca.
    Full Name:
    Nick
    I changed the TCU in my 2001 to a 2004 CS TCU and recommend it to everyone who has the earlier TCU's. The best upgrade i have done. Engagement is smooth and shifts are clean and strong especially in sport mode. Looking to put a sport exhaust next.
     
  10. trainwrex

    trainwrex Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2011
    279
    Perth, Australia
    okay yeh that makes alot of sense. cheers..

    apart from the gear changes would there be an increase in power with going to a cs ecu??
     
  11. F1.360.LOVER

    F1.360.LOVER Formula Junior

    Dec 12, 2009
    473
    Northern California
    Full Name:
    Nate
    Go for that exhaust!!!! You'll be a happy man.

    Nate
     
  12. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 19, 2008
    31,981
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    The parts catalogs show only one CS TCU during production, so if you find one, you are set. Might as well have a dealer swap it since it is only a 10 minute job and they will need to save the history and either save the PIS or reset it.
     
  13. mowater

    mowater Formula Junior

    May 24, 2004
    362
    excellent news, happy for you mate
    where does one go shopping for a used one ? :)
     
  14. MikeR397

    MikeR397 Formula 3

    May 9, 2010
    1,409
    SE Michigan
    I looked for 3 months, had four different ebay searchs book marked I was refreshing every couple days, and posted in several threads and Fchat Ads WTB that I was looking for one here at Fchat. Eventually, an Fchat member in Hong Kong that owns a racing team offered to sell me one. He had 2. I passed on the first b/c it was too high a price, and it ended up going with a car he sold to someone, then he negotiated a little with me on the second one and I gobbled it up for $2,100. Unfortunately I had to pay about $225 in international wire fees, outgoing, incoming, and currency conversion fees, but otherwise the deal went smooth and I think it was worth it for sure considering this is a money saving mod and may appreciate in value, as well as making the car dramatically more fun to drive! I'd have done it even if the resale value on the CS TCU was $0 now that I know the difference it does performance wise :).
     
  15. mowater

    mowater Formula Junior

    May 24, 2004
    362
    Thanks Mike. I have this psychological barrier at $1,800 before shipping.
    But your review makes me realllly interested in one. :)

    Will a 2003/2004 TCU make my life easier as well? Assuming that CS tcus are more expensive and rarer to find?
     
  16. MikeR397

    MikeR397 Formula 3

    May 9, 2010
    1,409
    SE Michigan
    2003/2004 is supposed to be pretty similar to the CS TCU, but I'm not sure how similar. I think the CS TCU has higher pressures, more aggressive downshifts, little bit crisper, but is close to the 2003/2004 wrt to wear and smoothness. That's just based on some anecdotal data points I've read on Fchat. I was hoping to get one for $1800 too, but the market for used CS TCU's is so thin, there is little leverage for a buyer and I think $2100-$2500 total is fair enough, under 50% off new for a no-wear item that either functions or doesn't. If you are wiling to spend $1800 and find one for a few hundred more, I'd do it considering you'll get your money back selling it later if you want to and you will love the upgrade.

    One thing is for sure though, the 1999-2002 version is crap in comparison and needs to be replaced considering how it gobbles up clutch life at a minimum.
     
    MarioVU1 likes this.
  17. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Aug 25, 2005
    6,128
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    John Zornes
    A couple of people have posted this and all I can say is HUH??? You clearly don't understand how the system works. There is a pump that provides the pressure to change gears and it is the same on the the CS, Modena, and Spider. No possible way that the CS has "higher pressure". The ONLY difference that the TCU can provide is a change in how fast it sends signals to the valves and a possible difference in the engagement profile.
     
  18. Bevo

    Bevo Karting
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 2, 2005
    189
    columbus ohio
    Full Name:
    jack babbitt
    agreed
     
  19. torresmd

    torresmd Karting

    Aug 14, 2010
    103
    I would really like to upgrade my TCU to a CS one. I just don't want to pay $5200 for it. Is Ricambi the only place to get this other than the dealer? Anyone have a spare that they want to sell to me?
     
  20. eric355

    eric355 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 30, 2005
    907
    Toulouse (France)
    Full Name:
    Eric DECOUX
    I wouldn't say it is not possible.
    The TCU is switching ON and OFF the pump based on the pressure sensor data. Oil pressure is built by the accumulation of oil flow in the tank, not because the pump delivers instantly the required pressure. Pressure thresholds are part of the SW parameters. Modifing these thresholds would lead to a shift of the operational pressures band (in the limit of the pump capacity).
    I don't say that this is the case with the CS TCU (I am not yet there ... ;) ) but it is not impossible with such a system.
     
  21. eric355

    eric355 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 30, 2005
    907
    Toulouse (France)
    Full Name:
    Eric DECOUX
    Which TCU do you have on your car? Can you read the hardware configuration which is written on it : CFCxxxF.xx?

    I should have some news from the CS TCU front in a couple of weeks ... :)
     
  22. mowater

    mowater Formula Junior

    May 24, 2004
    362
    Hi Eric, please keep us posted. I am extremely interested now in this mod! :)
     
  23. torresmd

    torresmd Karting

    Aug 14, 2010
    103
    My car is a 2001 spider. I have not actually looked at the tcu. Is it behind the passenger seat? I bought the car with a custom sub box behind the seats so I will have to remove that and have a look. Please keep me posted because I am eager to get this done.
    Thanks,
    Steve
     
  24. MikeR397

    MikeR397 Formula 3

    May 9, 2010
    1,409
    SE Michigan
    The CS TCU is behind the passenger seat. Take off the cover and it sits right in front.
     
  25. MikeR397

    MikeR397 Formula 3

    May 9, 2010
    1,409
    SE Michigan
    That is why I said "I think...". So please enlighten me as I would like to know how the F1 system works, and what exactly the difference is between the CS TCU and the first 360 ECU with respect to what overall F1 system operational changes are made.

    I'm not saying it's so wrt to the Ferrari F1 system, but a ECU/TCU swap can absolutely change pressure in other systems without other hardware adjustements. Take for example a Porsche Turbo with an ECU flash. Same turbos, wastegates, boost components as before, yet boost pressure goes from .8 bar to 1.1 bar with a simple ecu flash. Again, I was not saying I was sure that's similar to how the F1 system works with a CS TCU, just I don't see why it's not possible, so I look forward for someone to confirm what exactly the CS TCU does.
     

Share This Page