From someone who has done both standing starts and rolling starts I believe standing starts are safer. In a rolling start the speed of cars arriving in the first turn is much higher which is a problem on cold tyres. In the instance of the stalled out car which takes place even with the race officials watching these are very rarely straight on crashes, the drivers from behind are usually trying to avoid but don't have time, taking off corners/wings. If someone drives straight into the back of someone they should be paying attention, and OSB. In regards to the series everyone needs to keep in mind the management switched at Champ Car three years ago. The series is being run like a business and is not the same people/business that almost hung itself in the late 90's. Champ Car is improving in every category. The first year of the new management the best they could do was Spike, then Speed, now they are going to be on ESPN. When they took over the series they were running lola chassis and I dont even remember what the engine package was at the time... They have switched to a reliable cosworth package and are now introducing the elan chassis for 2007. There is a car/engine/tyre package available to teams for 1m a year which is a huge savings over previous years. Bottom line is costs are dropping for the teams. Just to look at which group has a future take a look at the feeder series. Last year with the new Atlantic cars they averaged something like 25-30 drivers per race. the IRL's Indy Pro Series has like 12 cars at any given race. Champ Car is not CART, the racing series that ran itself in the ground. Champ Car is doing a lot right and fans, venues, and sponsorship are moving to champ car. It doesn't matter what IRL does folds, succeeds, whatever.... Champ Car offers teams, sponsors and fans a good value for their money.
No, he didn't jump the very year IRL started in 1996, he jumped starting with the 2002 IRL season. I apologize - when I said 'TV exposure', I meant the Indy 500 TV exposure.
Yeah, they did for IRL, too, that lasted about 2 years, and then costs went up quite a bit (funny how that happens when MONEY comes into a series.....)
And THAT is EXACTLY why Tony George started IRL - his big thing was getting american drivers back into Indy cars, AND try to keep costs down. Looks to me that neither has really happened to any great extent.
So why American drivers do not bring sponsorship money into the series? I find hard to believe that there are more mediocre drives from third world countries binging money to CART than Americans. There must be another reason. It sound like a lame excuse to me.
Good point ... but I'm a little sick of people going on an on about safety and neutering the sport. Yes safety is very important, but there must be a sport first and foremost, and the right for people to choose how they want to spend their life. I guess some people do actually prefer rolling starts to standing starts, even spectators, but I for one (again that opinion issue hits home) think it close to kills the sport. Watching the Cart race at Indy/Surfers and the start was about as exciting as making a sandwich. Totally agree, but I do get a wee too passionate about my sport and will go a long way to trying to hang on to the purest version of the sport. Heck you'd hate what I would do to F1 to get it back to being proper racing instead of this TV show we now have to suffer. So in conclusion to keep us both happy I'll agree that rolling starts should continue to be used after a safety car period ... stopping the race and having another standing start would be weird . Best Pete
Well, IMO, I think we should call it OUR sport, not MY sport. I think standing sports are amazing to watch - they get my blood pumped - but this is outweighed by how dangerous I think they are - or were. And no, I don't think I would hate to see what you would do to get F1 racing back to 'racing', I think the consensus here is to harken back to the 70's type of equipment, but alas, that was then, this is now, we're not in Kansas anymore, I'm afraid.
I believe its an affordable venue to promote South American and International companies in the US. Many southern or inter'nl companies are getting great product exposure by sponsoring drivers and teams. I guess its hard for the American team ownes to say NO when a foreign driver brings great skills and lots of money to the team, its a difficult situation. Why not setup a racing league in South America similar to ChampCar?
I know a couple thousand race fans that were negatively affected by the predecessor of "Champ Car", CART, myself being one, and I will never support that losing series even if it were the last form of racing on earth. If I am going to watch any American open wheeled racing, I much prefer the IRL, they put incredible shows. When CARTscheduled their first race at MIS, THE SAME DAY as the Indy 500, ignoring the fact that thousands of race fans already spent their money on tickets, rooms, etc, to go to Indy, I realized that CART was nothing more than a bunch of greedy self centered wealthy team owners with no sense of reality. The first lap accident at that race in Michigan, where no one was hurt, was fitting justice to their stupidity. I absolutely do not agree that Tony George decided to kill US open wheeled racing, it was in fact the team owners in CART that killed the sport thinking they could run a fair series and also be participants. I blame Penske and Ganassi. No other professional form of auto racing was run by the teams, all successful forms of racing had its racing "czar". IRL would never have taken off as it did, and continue to operate, if the majority of teams at that time liked the situation at CART. The IRL will survive as long as they have the Indy 500, Champ CAR hopefully will not. I would applaud their demise. But until then, neither will do well until they merge.
As interesting as the "IRL vs CART" debate is...to get back to the actual topic: Standing starts are safer. Every race I watched in Europe, from touring cars to formula fords to whatever, all had standing starts. It's standard for every race car with a clutch in Europe, or at least it was when I lived there. The real point is that if you grow up doing it that way, you have a clue how to handle it. Rolling starts are bloody dangerous IMO, and I'm another who has done both. So I'm that bit more careful, a tactic I might commend to some pro drivers I have observed. And that's the bottom line: the start, regardless of procedure, is the most dangerous point in any race. Drive accordingly. Races are won at the finish, not the start.
If you blame Penske and Ganassi for the split, then why do you support the series that they participate in? It's been stated many times - except for some of the teams and 1 of the owners, the current ChampCar has NOTHING TO DO with past CART transgressions. As much as I hate Tony George, I can admit that the former CART teams/owners/franchisees were greedy bastards that killed off what could have been the world's top motorsport (there were other factors that let to CART's demsise, but the owners take the majority of the blame - however, I still won't buy any Toyota to this day thanks to their actions when they were in CART). It's time for CART haters like you to get over it and realize that the current owners seem to have a solid business plan and have shown growth every year since they took over. Even with Indy, IRL will not survive. Watch what happens this year, Tony will be back to running his 1 race, which is as it should be.
That link was for the 14th. Here is 12/15 test times: http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=30198 In that test he was quicker than Wurz, Andretti, and Speed.
Afordable? How can it be more affordable for a South-Amereican country to advertise in the US? What products from those companies are sold in the US? Just look at the economies of those 3rd world countries compared with the US.I bet that there are a lot more American drives that can buy a ride in CART than Latin Americans. It has nothing to do with those Latin American drivers buying rides in the series. The reason is that American drivers do not see CART as the pinnacle of motorsports.
I disagree. More importantly the FIA disagrees: A few years back when F1 had a huge crash right after the start to the Belgium GP in heavy rain, they decided to do the restart behind the SC as a rolling start. It was the most disgusting and pathetic display I have ever seen of F1 (yes, worse than USGP 05) and luckily they have never repeated that ever since. Probably a few people chewed their ears out after that miserly display of testicular infortitude.
I thought the only people left that supported the IRL were the ones with free tickets. We can argue the business past of the battle all day long but the writing is on the wall. Penske and AGR are going to the ALMS next year to open a door before the IRL closes thiers. You say that the IRL puts on an incredible show. Here's how to stage the .0000002 second finishes. Start with a car with too much downforce and put a little motor in it. Someone with limited experience can run them flat out. Just ask Paul Dana. www.crapwagon.com
Yeah, yeah, yeah ... that comment was just a play on words, to show you how passionate I am about the sport. Ofcourse it's not my sport , but as far as I am concerned when I'm watching it, it's for me . This is where I have to agree to disagree. IMO so much of the sport is killed with lame rolling starts, that well what is left?. Something like 75% of the action occurs at the start, especially nowadays with these corporate, no balls drivers that we have today. Thus just like a running athelete accepts the risk of leg damage due to their standing starts, we have to accept that standing starts are a part of the sport and educate ALL participants into how to do them properly. Like many have said there are more races started with standing starts every year than rolling, and the death and injury toll from m/sport currently is very low (thankfully). So they are not crazily dangerous. This was part of the destruction of F1 thanks to Bernies TV viewpoint. I believe this was after RR's and AS's deaths and Bernie became a complete idiot. All he could think of is his audience having negative reactions, and thus they went completely overboard and neutered one of the best tracks period and also made a couple of million changes to the cars just to be seen to be making changes. I'm am not saying we should take a drivers (or more importantly a spectators) death lightly, but we also should not have panicked as they did. All that needed to happen to Imola was a large run off area, heck a sand trap of huge proportions, instead they fncked the track and now it sncks. In the end ALL participants (accept spectators IMO) need to understand and fully accept that they are taking a risk, just as all motorcycle riders need to to (I'm one). We absolutely should use technology to improve safety, not to alter the sport. Pete
Amen to that. Everytime some schmuck walks up and talks about improving the safety of the cars or tracks I'm having a gag reaction. Safety is good right now, don't mess with that aspect. Now go fix the racing/passing problem.
As far as understand, it is 'cheaper' for a Brazilian company to spend money on sponsorship than for an American, British, etc... I have been explained several years ago that it's kind of a tax loophole, where Brazilian company can deduct from their profits a lot more than would be allowed in US, etc... but I couldn't quote it now. This explains why in the 70s, 80s and 90s, we saw plenty of Brazilian (and other South American) drivers arrive in number in the States, Britain, etc... I remember Fittipaldi brothers, Piquet, Serra, Guerrero, Senna, and lots more, coming to UK, buying drives in top F3 teams and soon get into F1 bringing some sponsorship with them. There was a year where most of the F3 field in UK was South American! As far as the CART v. IRL debate is concerned, I can't take side, but I regret that America hasn't an united single seat national series, but instead 2 0ne-make series competing against each other. I say one-made series, as I understand that each series has its own mandatory chassis/engine combination. That, to me is an abberation.
Here's a link to some pics of the first ten of the DP01s done. By a guy who works at Elan. http://www.wrxatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10854
Come to think of it, is there an open-wheel series of any kind in this country that is doing real well right now ? - Asphalt Modifieds - Dirt Modifieds - Midgets - Sprint Cars - IRL - Champ Car - F1 No matter how you look at it, the pinnacle of motorsports in this country right now is nascar nextel cup, followed closely by NHRA Drag Racing, and then a HUGE gap back to the next series.
I'll quote you on that. We shall see how awesome or lame Champ Car's 2007 season will be. 'an entirely new series...with more of an American flavor' - Tony George Isn't it ironic now that IRL has an Italian chassis, a Dallara, while Champ Car will have an American-built chassis, the Panoz DP01, in 2007? 1994 Featurette - IRL Announcement http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erHQmiqD8BI nascar nextel cup is the "pinnacle of motorsports" as far as $$$ goes. Daytona 500 fragrance: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11236467/
