Chances of a Democrat win in '04?

correct, lots of people think they have entitlements in this country...not just the dems. ken lay, jack welch, martha, and others.

as far as osama and the attack...i feel quite sure that any president would have retaliated in some fashion ...albiet not to the extent that bush has. but the money spent, the contracts awarded (they may have been entitlments also), sadam captured, still our own are getting killed daily and people are beginning to ask why?

but still, we did give iraq its' freedom...well kinda...well maybe not...but we will...soon...i think?

pcb

 

I think you're saying that those issues are meaningless and all we need in the WH is a trigger happy cowboy with his finger on the button, is that ture?

Clinton came just as close to nuking Osama as your boy. ..yet he enacted lots of environmental laws (which bush has destroyed) and piloted us to a huge surplus (which bush also destroyed).

Luke.

 

if we want to further the history lesson, it might be a good idea to look at some of the stories from 1945-1950 allied-occupied germany.

allied soldiers were being ambushed and attacked all over the place, especially during the 2 years post conflict.
the public opinion in the usa was 'why are we there? we won the war, let the krauts sort themselves out'. but we didn't do that. we stuck it out and made sure that the country that was responsible for 2 world wars and a few other skirmishes, got back on its feet economically, politically and democratically. today they are one of the top 3 economies in the world, a serious world stage player and (normally) one of our staunchest allies.

this is the template for iraq. sticking it out and helping to make it something (democratic, economically viable, and safe), will pay dividends for the next 50-100 years.

try to look at events with a long view, not just react to the latest car bomb.

 

Not to mention the long standing lines separating church and state have been blurred quite a bit.

One of the things that makes me more than a little distrustful of Bush is the WAY he speaks like a low rent snake oil - Preacher using bible too many times. He is suposed to be Prez for the country not just the people who think we should live in a permident idealised moral vaccume of their choosing. (Falwell Buchanan THE WHOLE FOX NEWS NETWORK Limb-baaaaa etc)

 

Weren't you the one in a flame war yesterday bemoaning the "I guess noone likes me..."

RESPECT for peoples RIGHT to free speach and opinion, look in to it sometime

 

if I do, I don't do it any more than you!! If you listen to the interview with Robert Kennedy (re: the enviornment) on freshair.npr.org (Terry Gross is admittedly very liberal) I'll read or listen to the right wing polluter of your choice speak on the same subject. Then we'll compare notes. How's that?

 

No man, my opinions aren't welcome on a board where well-paid white men like to talk about their cars, snap towels, bash the Clinton's, and express a general "bring it on" attitude.

Luke.

 

If people asked themselves if they are better off today than four years ago, Bush wouldn't have a chance.

If people voted for the party whose policies are actually better for them right now in their present situation, Bush wouldn't have a chance.

The problem is that a whole lot of people vote on silly "value" (i.e. religious) issues and then there are the poor people who are convinced they are going to be rich some day so vote for the republicans so they won't have to pay as much tax when they have their billions. Yeah, right, Billy Bob, you're going to be the next billionaire.

Just remember that we live in a global economy now. The rest of the world gets to vote on the health of the U.S. and the Bush administration every day with their money. How are they voting? Check the value of the dollar vs. the other major currencies and you'll see.

-Slim

 

That wasn't a knock, I was seriously trying to spark a debate with some actual facts behind them. You listen to my guy, I listen to yours, then we argue. No? Ok, we can just continue to call each other idiots then.

 

he has over $200 mm)

Actually, no. $99 m as of December 31, after expenses.

Henryk: I couldn't agree with you more... Did you ever read Catch-22?
I first saw that argument there.

 

WTF? How many times in the past few threads have I been told that my opinions aren't wanted??? One _ouchebag even put me on his ignore list!

I'm as majority as they come, I just think this place is so HOMOGENEOUS that it can't stand descent.

Luke.

 

Just joshing you. I'm sorry..com'ere

I disagree. Why post these threads at all then ? I really like to hear the opinions of others and think it would be an interesting exercize. We both might learn something. Anyway...

Luke.

 

Ok this is just me, I understand from looking around that you used to be in the Forces? Ok now don't take this the wrong way but this background usually has a lot to do with following orders..Right? Not questioning your superiors Correct?

Well those of us who have not been through that might look beyond the crap a "Fair and Balanced (tm)" network or some other things may put out.

Nibbs just think that you might be wrong about some things and start to question. I am sure you can get some help from a good back specialist to get your head out of your A$$ sometime but till then just try and think beyond what you are being told to think.

When you do and you have you might be able to see that Bush has become the most polarizing factor in Politics today. His co conspiritors Chenny Ashcroft Rumsfeld all have a lot of experience that dates back to their days in RICHARD NIXON's and Gerald Ford's administrations. Now when you are dealing with THAT kind of experience it is only a matter of time before an affable peanut farmer whoops the establisment again....

 

To be fair to Nibbs I think he admitted this earlier, but HE SAID THAT HE DIDN'T CARE!!! Wow.

Luke.

 

When you do and you have you might be able to see that Bush has become the most polarizing factor in Politics today. His co conspiritors Chenny Ashcroft Rumsfeld all have a lot of experience that dates back to their days in RICHARD NIXON's and Gerald Ford's administrations. Now when you are dealing with THAT kind of experience it is only a matter of time before an affable peanut farmer whoops the establisment again....[/QUOTE]

Incorrect. It is not Bush that has become a magic force polarizing today's politics. It's things like your asinine statement " co conspiritors"
that are the truly polarizing dynamics driving the schism.

Oh, your'e a photojournalist! My apoligies to the bastion of American fairness & intellectualism!

Bush will win in a landslide, as many formerly indifferent voters, alarmed by the media frenzy (myself included), go to the polls to make sure that Bush stays in office.

 

You know, it is positively HILARIOUS that people who have ABSOLUTELY no idea about the fundamental of economics think that a man can be blamed for the natural cyclical swings of an economy. Bush was in office a total of six months when the market started to further implode but would one of you left-wing pinkos tell me what policy initiative he enacted that caused that? You can't, because there was not one. The hey-days of Clinton came about as a result of the fiscal policies of Ronald Reagan that came to fruition just in time for Clinton to take the credit, also combined with the rennaissance-like emergence of nearly daily technology innovations. Was the dot-com BS really something to be that proud of? The smart money like Warren Buffett said that the internet was an over-inflated wet-dream for people who did not understand to be in business you have to actually MAKE MONEY, offer a product or a service, not just some pipe-dream fantasy of what you WILL make MAYBE !!! How many Fchatters lost there asses in the dot-com fiasco? Most millionaires are self-made, they do not inherit it, check your stats, and you can DO ANYTHING YOU WANT IN THE USA and this is about the only place in the world that statement is true. I'm sorry that you have resigned yourself to being a 9-to-5 'er taking your bosses BS and making other people wealthy. Get off your ass, you can also do it, it IS NOT an unattainable DREAM !!!

Karmavore, I honestly do not care what people in England or France think of us because if it were not for the good old USA they would all be driving Beetles, eating sauerkraut and speaking German. America not only defeated the NAZI's but then spent our tax dollars to REBUILD all the great tourist traps we so-love to frequent. So take your cowboy, white men talking about their cars BS somewhere else, like maybe Ralph Nader's website. Jealousy is such an ugly thing to behold.

 

Oh, your'e a photojournalist! My apoligies to the bastion of American fairness & intellectualism!



Ok now the "Liberal" media is not really a factor I would put it more to literate as in I can read. Yes as a journalisit there are times the temptation to poke someones eye out is strong but i have tried to remain as neutral as my stomach allows. After all i don't have the ability to Vote, at least not in this country. This doesn't mean I can sit and listen to people "Voice their opinion" With out challanging their assertions.
Part of my job as a journalist is to call into question when someone says something is FACT. I question a lot of things from both sides just the VOLLUME of BS coming out from the Right has become a little distracting, It is like they are trying to devert everyone's attention away so they can do something else.

Read All the Presidents men (reason I became a Journalist)

 

Thanks for making my point. I'm not at all jealous. I'm just calling 'em as I see 'em. I think I'll stay.

LUke.