Change out an F1 to a manual shift set up? F355 | FerrariChat

Change out an F1 to a manual shift set up? F355

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by leslie-ca, May 25, 2007.

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  1. leslie-ca

    leslie-ca Karting

    Feb 11, 2006
    97
    No. Calif
    Full Name:
    Leslie
    I am toying with the idea of altering an F1 car to a manual shift. 1998 F355. Assuming used parts are available, what would it take? Can I assume the trans and clutch are the same? In general, what would be the biggest hurdle? Has anyone else considered doing this?
    Thanks in advance for your input. (I did ask this in the 328/355 section)
     
  2. ZINGARA 250GTL

    ZINGARA 250GTL F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 21, 2002
    17,499
    PA
    Full Name:
    Ken
    Simply can't imagine why you'd want to do that.
     
  3. leslie-ca

    leslie-ca Karting

    Feb 11, 2006
    97
    No. Calif
    Full Name:
    Leslie
    However, I really prefer the manual. I have found a very low cost F355 spider with problems related to the paddle shifter that have eluded the seller. Is it really impractible or is it doable? I live near a ferrari salvage yard and believe I can get the parts needed. So... thank you for the reply, how do you feel about the project otherwise?
     
  4. jonesdds

    jonesdds Formula 3

    Aug 31, 2006
    2,160
    SB,CA & Park City UT
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    "Ferrari salvage yard"? I had no idea such a thing existed. Kind of depressing. Where is this place you speak of.

    I considered changing a old MBZ 380SL to a manual once. It made no sense financially to do it. I can't imagine it would make sense in this case but maybe if the current F1 is shot and needs major work. I would think its a different transmission and possibly clutch, like a SMG tranny in a BMW but I don't know for sure. Probably not a good idea to switch for the originality of the car and resale though either. You'd have to make permanent changes that can't be switched back(clutch pedal, etc.)

    Jeff
     
  5. life_is_a_playground

    Sep 28, 2006
    46
  6. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,613
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    Where there is a will, there is a way. You are really gonna have to study the trans REALLY, REALLY good. I helped F-chatter Plugzit put 355 throttle bodies on his 348 engine. So like I said, where there is a will, there is a way.

    From my understanding the 355 F1 is essentially a manual gear box, that is shifted via the Selespeed actuators, the same system that is used in Alfa 156 & 157's, minus a gear of course.

    Anyway.

    There are several issue you are going to need to deal with. I think one of your biggest hurdles will be putting in a manual clutch peddle. You are gonna need to put in a stick shift, but putting in the stick is fairly straight forward, not too hard. Looking at the F1 parts diagram the insides are pretty much the same. The only differences I could see was the selector forks were different. So I'm not sure if you will need to change those or not? Actually I think you may have to because the shift control rods, coming out of the gear box, look different. But that is nothing more that removing the front cover plate of the tranny. There also appears to be a sensor plate on the bottom of the F1 gear box that you will need to replace, unless you are just going to put in an entirely different gear box and not use the existing one. The throw out bearing looks to be different also, and I'm sure there are a few more things I did spend the time to look for.

    I thinks it's do-able. But I dunno if I would tackle it? It really depends on the cost, and if you are going to be performing the work. It may be easier to just swap out the gear box for a non F1 gear box. It really all depends on you. But one thing is for sure you are gonna have to REALLY study it before you decide on what you wanna do.

    If you do decide to do it, it would be nice if you made a thread so we could follow along.
     
  7. jonesdds

    jonesdds Formula 3

    Aug 31, 2006
    2,160
    SB,CA & Park City UT
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    'round the corner from my father's place. Might come in handy some day. Thanks. Also a good parts shop in that same area I think.

    Jeff
     
  8. leslie-ca

    leslie-ca Karting

    Feb 11, 2006
    97
    No. Calif
    Full Name:
    Leslie
    All badly wrecked or partly cremated Ferrari's get bought up by someone, mostly the salvage yards. Yes the one I refer to is the link posted, located near Sacramento CA. If it entailed changing out the entire trans, they would likely be a buyer for my F1 stuff, and sell me the manual stuff, at a profit of course. So... thanks again for the input, any one else...?
     
  9. cwwhk

    cwwhk Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2003
    1,535
    Hong Kong, Tokyo
    Full Name:
    Wayne
    Such a swap is not economically feasible for a 360 so for a 355 it will be even less so. Look for another car is probably your better option.
     
  10. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2001
    18,037
    USA

    If you can get this car for "very low cost", fix it and sell it, and get the car you want. To do anything else will be a huge waste of money and time, and you are left with a "Franken-Ferrari" (no longer original car) that will be difficult to sell later.
     
  11. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,876
    The Cold North
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    Tom
    It can be done...its not really that big of an issue if you have a doner car..but you need to swap out the ecu for the engine as well.
     
  12. leslie-ca

    leslie-ca Karting

    Feb 11, 2006
    97
    No. Calif
    Full Name:
    Leslie
    I see that a lot of the replys are based on the costs involved, and of course the biggie is the car itself. I think the car can be had for $40k for the 1998 red tan F355 spider. I don't plan to do it for resale, just for a driver, a beater if you will. Park it at the local hardware store, movie theater, frankin ferrari, track car, no matter. Help me with some useful cost suggetions. Can the used parts be had for under $10k? That I still don't know. Can anyone suggest a shopping list, just a rough draft, not all inclusive... So, is a tranny swap in order or not. Ecu? Tell us what you know. A doner car is "available" for a price, and I may have a buyer for the "usable" F1 items. Pump, paddles, console, ecu... etc.
     
  13. Fred2

    Fred2 F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 2, 2005
    18,110
    nj
    I think the best way to do this would be to find a donor car,(heavy front end damage) for all the little parts that you are going to need. (Clutch pedal, shift lever, shifter parts, cables, rods, wire harness, switches, etc.)

    Once you strip the donor car, sell it and the left over F1 parts, and you should come out pretty close to even.
     
  14. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,613
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    The Bad Guy
    More trouble than it's worth if you ask me.
     
  15. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
    7,645
    Northern California
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    Greg Calo
    I would do it!

    Looks like an interesting project.
     
  16. TheBigEasy

    TheBigEasy F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Jun 21, 2005
    18,422
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    Ethan Hunt
    It would be much easier and cheaper to just sell the car and buy a stick shift one instead.
     
  17. leslie-ca

    leslie-ca Karting

    Feb 11, 2006
    97
    No. Calif
    Full Name:
    Leslie
    Hey Chase,
    I won't need to sell it... so for I have not bought it. This board is a great help. The car is soon to be put up for sale. I offered $35k and am told that I can get it for $40-45k. So I am looking for input. If I don't get it, they will likely post it to Ebay, then you can all ask me what I have learned about it...and I will be happy to oblige.

    Leslie
     
  18. ZINGARA 250GTL

    ZINGARA 250GTL F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 21, 2002
    17,499
    PA
    Full Name:
    Ken
    I questioned this in an earlier post. I would hate to see someone get into it and find he has ended up with a pile of parts and no car. If you can't afford one, you definitely can't afford the other. I'm with you.



     
  19. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
    Owner

    May 24, 2004
    9,334
    DC/LA/Paris/Haleiwa
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    Mr.
    No, no, no...............
     
  20. ZINGARA 250GTL

    ZINGARA 250GTL F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 21, 2002
    17,499
    PA
    Full Name:
    Ken
    +1


     
  21. leslie-ca

    leslie-ca Karting

    Feb 11, 2006
    97
    No. Calif
    Full Name:
    Leslie
    Is the clutch the same in the manual as the F1? I assume the trans is the same, am I wrong on that ?
     
  22. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
    7,645
    Northern California
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    Greg Calo
    Tranny is the same but not the clutch assembly as I understand it.
     
  23. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Apr 1, 2004
    16,251
    Dumpster Fire #31
    Full Name:
    SMG
    by the time your done you'll have spent close to 80k and I know of a MINT! '97 F355 6speed for 79k in Roseville. personally buy the car the way you want it, swapping over is costly and will not be worth it because these are Ferrari's not bmw's mercedes etc..
     
  24. 355 Fixer-uper

    355 Fixer-uper Karting

    Jul 27, 2005
    126
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    Anyone know what happened to this car?
     

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