Changes and impact to Dino resale value | FerrariChat

Changes and impact to Dino resale value

Discussion in '206/246' started by HMB-Dino, Aug 4, 2010.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. HMB-Dino

    HMB-Dino Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 28, 2010
    2,282
    Pebble Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    RonG
    #1 HMB-Dino, Aug 4, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2010
    Forgive me if this has been covered in another thread, but while searching for a Dino, I realized that no car is perfect in every way when it comes to color combination, features, etc. So I was wondering about what happens to a car's resale value, if anything, when certain changes/upgrades are made, assuming that all changes stay within the Dino family. For example;

    - I read somewhere that changing paint color to another that was offered on the Dino does not affect value. True/False?
    - changing out standard seats in favor of Daytona seats
    - replacing vinyl interior items with leather items
    - replacing the interior color scheme with another (eg, black replaced with tan)
    - replacing an original radio with another brand, assuming you can't easily find a replacement original that works
    - adding a radio to a Dino that didn't come with one originally
    - adding the Ferrari tag
    - adding a passenger side mirror

    Please feel free to add other common changes and their resale impact. And if this topic has been discussed a million times before for the Dino, please point me in the right direction.
    Thanks!
     
  2. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,660
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Shawn


    - I read somewhere that changing paint color to another that was offered on the Dino does not affect value. True/False?...... depends on color

    - changing out standard seats in favor of Daytona seats ..... no deduction that I know of


    - replacing vinyl interior items with leather items..... an upgrade and not a problem


    - replacing the interior color scheme with another (eg, black replaced with tan) ..... no real issue unless you get crazy like a yellow car with red interior


    - replacing an original radio with another brand, assuming you can't easily find a replacement original that works .... no issue, Dino's didnt come with a specified radio, most were dealer installed

    - adding a radio to a Dino that didn't come with one originally .... no problem


    - adding the Ferrari tag ..... CRINGE.... I wouldn't do it. Most cars that have them have owners that regret that......to each their own, but i WOULD not add one..

    - adding a passenger side mirror ... not a big deal.....


    Will the peanut gallery add input, either good or bad? The person asking these question is real and legit. He wants honest feedback from Dino guys, and that doesn't just mean re-tards like me. I am certain we have a new addict in our mist....

    Am i off on any responses?
     
  3. HMB-Dino

    HMB-Dino Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 28, 2010
    2,282
    Pebble Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    RonG
    I should probably admit that I'm a current owner of a 2008 Porsche Cayman S (my current weekender), but looking to add a nice 1972-1974 Dino GTS or GT to my garage. In the Porsche world, I couldn't believe how many people modify their new cars to personalize or for the track. Many such changes just seemed so wrong to me.

    So with that said, I want to know when I look at a prospective Dino to purchase, whether prior owner changes were good or bad for the car...guess I'm saying I don't want to get penalized (when and if I were to sell someday) for their bad choices.
     
  4. dinogts

    dinogts Formula 3
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    A couple of comments re the above:

    - Replacing vinyl interior items with leather -- the door caps should be Dino vinyl - I wouldn't be so keen on seeing them in leather. Also, the mousehair is pretty flocked Dino vinyl (you can see the underlying grain) - I don't like the idea of replacing the dash with leather.

    - Adding the Ferrari tag .... I never would have done that to my GTS, but I have period photos of my new [well, old] Dino GT with a NART badge on the rear - it was imported AND sold by Chinetti - but when I bought, the badge was missing but the holes were still there. I found a NART badge the same size, but I can't attach it in the same location because someone messed with the original license plate surround. To cover the holes and the differential paint fade, the only substitute that I have found is a standard Ferrari yellow PH sticker that I have placed over the area where the old NART badge was. I don't like having done that, but as soon as I solve the license plate surround issue, I'll put my NART badge on it in the same location where it was in the old photos. If I had a Ferrari name plate accross the back, I'd plan on taking that off as soon as I could get around to doing it as long as I was also able to fill in the holes. So, if you see my GT in Monterey next week, with that otherwise (in my mind) idiotic Ferrari PH sticker, you'll know the reason why.

    - Adding a passenger side mirror .... I'd like to do that to my GT - just make sure that it is an old style (either NOS or good repro) that matches the driver side mirror.

    In the end though, this is all pretty subjective. So, I say pretty much do what you want (especially if you don't care about entering judged shows) as long as you don't do things like adding air dams, spoilers, wings, sunroofs/moonroofs, etc. (I'd also stay away from wire wheels . . . .)
     
  5. 2GT

    2GT Formula 3

    Aug 25, 2008
    1,842
    Western NY
    Full Name:
    Fred
    I added a cavallino to the tail of each of my Dinos, but would never add a Ferrari badge. The car is a Dino, not a Ferrari, but I believe that it "deserves" the cavallino mascot, since it shares family dna. The fact that the cavallino appears on the driver's door jamb build tag and on the inside of the engine lid makes me think that perhaps the factory also felt that way. Only my opinion, as everyone always says! Fred
     
  6. HMB-Dino

    HMB-Dino Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 28, 2010
    2,282
    Pebble Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    RonG
    I see another clarification is needed...

    When I said replace vinyl with leather, I was only referring to those interior pieces that came in leather when leather was ordered as an option. I'm not sure what pieces came in leather from the factory (besides seats, door panels?), but I wouldn't dream of making a Dino into something you couldn't get from the factory.
     
  7. DinoLasse

    DinoLasse Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 26, 2009
    606
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    Lars
    Just to add a slightly different view from the peanut gallery, here are my opinions/valuations. These are NOT market valuations, but the opinions of one individual who values originality over almost everything else.


    - I read somewhere that changing paint color to another that was offered on the Dino does not affect value. True/False? … False. Non-original color reduces the value (to me) by up to $15,000 - $20,000.

    - changing out standard seats in favor of Daytona seats… Reduces the value to me with about $5,000.

    - replacing vinyl interior items with leather items … Don’t like it, but no real value reduction.

    - replacing the interior color scheme with another (eg, black replaced with tan) … Terrible, reduces the value to me with about $8,000.

    - replacing an original radio with another brand, assuming you can't easily find a replacement original that works … No problem, period correct radios are available. I have spare, correct Becker Mexico radio to put in it.

    - adding a radio to a Dino that didn't come with one originally … Not a big issue, but no holes or external grilles on the door panels, please. That would reduce the value to me with about $2,000.

    - adding the Ferrari tag … Unacceptable. Must be removed and the holes filled and repainted. Reduction perhaps $3000 to $5000 depending on difficulty to correct. Prancing horses are not too objectionable, but I would still want to remove them.

    - adding a passenger side mirror … Not a problem, if it is a correct original type – same as driver’s side.



    Lars
     
  8. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,660
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Shawn
    Lars,

    With all due respect to you and your opinions, I would have to say you are in the minority when it comes to value reductions you place on the items.

    I agree putting external door speakers in looks like cr*p and it would make me think about buying the car, the other items are simply items that if i could have whatever I wanted, I wouldn't prefer. They wouldn't and haven't stopped me from buying an otherwise nice car.

    shawn
     
  9. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2004
    2,798
    Southern California
    #9 4CamGT, Aug 8, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2010
    For the most part I agree with Shawn. The foundation of a Dino is most important regardless of color and equipment. Dinos are coachbuilt production cars and tend to transcend color changes etc as long as they're restored to an original specification and color that could have been available in period. How many cars on the lawn at Pebble were restored to not as delivered yet period specification? Has more to do with how well it is done and how period correct it is. My opinion.

    Freeman
     
  10. michael bayer

    michael bayer Formula 3

    Aug 4, 2004
    1,293
    Another point worth considering: there is a small but growing market for original, unrestored and unmolested cars. These buyers prize the real deals and are willing to go well beyond patinia. They believe that like other fine art, once something is "redone", even by the very best, that originality is lost forever. However, the right cars for this market are very scarce, but ask and you will find some very passionate views on this, some of which is in Vintage
     
  11. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,660
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Shawn
    I 100% agree. All my cars have had very minor things doen to them over the years. As much as I have been tempted to make them look nicer (ie- dashes, etc) I have left them alone and purposely looked for cars like this when I was buying a Dino. I had heard to many bad stories about bad resto's, especially during the boom, that fresh cars always seemed possible candidates for botched job. Especially since almost always cars are described as "excellent" condition
     
  12. dignini

    dignini Formula 3

    Aug 21, 2005
    1,348
    NJ
    Full Name:
    Luigi Marazzi
    How many could possibly have survived unmolested.
    body rot, damage etc.etc.
     
  13. DinoLasse

    DinoLasse Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 26, 2009
    606
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    Lars

    Shawn,

    I am well aware that I am in a minority, I only wanted to tell HMB-Dino that there are all kinds of buyers out there. Some value originality more than others.

    We have seen that some Dinos now command asking prices close to (gulp) a quarter of a million dollars. For that kind of money a buyer should expect the car to be concours capable AND as original, in my opinion. When you think concours, the value reductions I gave are not that far out of line. They represent what I believe it would cost to have the car converted back to its original configuration.

    There must be other individuals out there with a similar minority opinion, though. Think about Steve Mc Queen’s Lusso which was painstakingly restored back to its original brown (!) color before it was auctioned off. It sold for a record $ 9 Million, I believe…

    I just want to make it clear that my opinion is absolutely not a put-down to those who decide to change color or interiors of their cars. In fact, some of the best looking Dinos I have seen, have been tastefully personalized by their owners, with non-original colors, headlight covers and wheels, entirely in keeping with the character of the car (that one was for you, Fred!). I applaud those efforts. I love to look at those cars. They are all part of the automotive hobby, and they represent a celebration of the Dino concept we all love. It is just that, if I were to go looking for a Dino for myself, originality is what I would look for first.

    A minority opinion, yes, but an opinion nevertheless.

    Lars
     
  14. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
    9,294
    CHNDLR
    Full Name:
    Scott
    USD$2.31 million, although by an anonymous buyer but your point that it is worth many multiples of the standard is well taken

    http://jalopnik.com/290578/steve-mcqueen-1963-ferrari-250-gt-berlinetta-lusso-sells-for-23-million-at-christies-monterey-auction
     
  15. HMB-Dino

    HMB-Dino Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 28, 2010
    2,282
    Pebble Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    RonG
    Everyone has an opinion and you agree with some and disagree with others. A good example of this is when you see customer reviews of restaurants. Some people may trash your favorite restaurant and say it's the worst ever, while others will concur with your opinion that it's the best.

    In asking my question, not being familiar with the Ferrari world but familiar with the late model Porsche world, I wanted to get a feel for such opinions before I sink down a pile of cash on a used car...twice the cost of my new Cayman S, no less! So when I look at Dino's I might have a better idea of `oh, oh, this car was changed in a way that I'm overpaying because of its lack of originality' vs `this car will hold its value because of what the previous owner did with it'.
     
  16. abstamaria

    abstamaria F1 Rookie

    Feb 11, 2006
    2,668
    Full Name:
    Andres
    I think the problem might be that, in considering impact on value, one has to take into account what others (the faceless market) might want rather than what one wants to do with one's Dino.

    I think we are all agreed that we would pay more for an original car in excellent condition and less for the same car with an unnecessary seat change, new leather, etc. But if a car needed a ground-up restoration anyway, then I wouldn't reduce the price because in the process it acquired Daytona seats, a color change to my liking, and so forth.

    The downside of a fine original car is that one can't "improve" it!

    Regards to all.

    Andres
     
  17. 500tr

    500tr Formula 3

    Feb 28, 2004
    1,218
    Germany
    Full Name:
    Volkmar Spielmann
    Maybe the opinions of Lars are a minority in the US but a majority in Europe.

    Volkmar
     
  18. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2004
    2,798
    Southern California
    #18 4CamGT, Aug 9, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2010
    In looking for my Dino I went through all of these steps so I can relate. I ended turning down the 7500 mile U.S. Dino because I really couldn't do anything to it. It wasn't about price. When I found my Euro spec "Blu Scurro" *03932* it was everything I wanted. It was a bit scruffy on the cosmetics but the body condition along with the mechanicals were great. The longer I have it I keep finding how original it is and how fortunate I am that I pulled the trigger on it!. Finding out that "Blu Scurro" was its original exterior color with the caramel beige vinyl was a bonus. It's one of my favorite color combos on a Dino. If it had been another color that I didn't like and I was going to do a ground up restoration I would have no issues in doing a color change to a Dino original color I love. Color is VERY important. You have to LOVE it. Sometimes you're fortunate and you find a Dino in a great original color, sometimes you find a great Dino in a color that doesn't move you. If you do a ground up I don't believe there's a value difference as long as its a color that people love and an original Dino color. Original unrestored cars you don't have a choice. In the vintage Porsche world doing a color change on a 356 isn't an issue as long as its an original 356 color, on early 911's original color is important to value. I see Dinos on the 356 side. Visually a Dino looks best without modifications(headlamp covers are the exception as they were design intent). Bolt on bolt off stuff like wheels(Campy vs Cromodora) are fun to play with. On radios, I think a modern radio looks out of place in a Dino. Must be a period radio. Mirrors, prefer an original Daytona style, driver's side only or none. If it had Ferrari scripts and cavalinos just take them off and fill the holes. Bottom line, find a good one and make it yours! Remember Corbani's Dino? He was our role model for enjoying our Dinos. His was a color change, put on 16" wheels BTW and he put lots of miles on it. That car had a soul!

    Freeman

    P.S. If I would have bought McQueen's Lusso before it was restored I would have painted it silver. It would still have been McQueen's Lusso!
     
  19. 2GT

    2GT Formula 3

    Aug 25, 2008
    1,842
    Western NY
    Full Name:
    Fred
    The notion of vehicle personalization has numerous applications, perhaps as many as there are individual vehicles or owners. High-visibility collectors like Jay Leno do outrageous things to old cars, and create magnificent hybrids in the process. Hot rod and custom car builders fuse '32 Ford reproduction bodies with Chevy small-block V-8s. While I admire and respect originality, I have a bit of a stubborn streak, in that I frequently like to change an item or two on some of my cars. For example, our two M-B SLKs '06 and '10) have R 230-series SL body-color antennas in place of the factory-provided black mast antennas. Both my Dinos have small cavallini on their tail panels, but not Ferrari script. One of my Dinos has amber Euro rear turn-signal lenses and 308 five-point star mags, though with Dino center caps. First, they are my cars, and they weren't purchased with resale in mind. Second, in my personal opinion, I don't believe that my modifications have done injury to the design or manufacturing philosophy that underpins them. Finally, all of my modifications are of a type that can easily be reversed, either at minimal or no cost. Having said that, while I don't personally approve of those who try to turn their 308 GTBs into 288 GTO clones, I applaud those who, when doing so, utilize quality parts and workmanship. The bottom line, I guess, is that I don't approve of automobile censorship! Chacun a son gout ! (pardon any spelling errors). Fred
     
  20. DinoLasse

    DinoLasse Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 26, 2009
    606
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    Lars
    Freeman – I agree with every word you wrote above (except maybe about the Lusso!). I can only add “Amen” to it. I would also have chosen the car you chose of the two, and for the same reasons. I also admire the John Corbiani spirit of Dino ownership. It is perfectly possible to be an enthusiast who believes in driving the Dino and doing things with it on the one hand, and the slight preference for originality, which I expressed, on the other hand. I see no inherent contradictions in those two approaches.

    Fred – I have even considered emulating your car by putting headlight covers on my car – originality (and the two minus points from the concours judge) be damned. The five spoke wheels have also entered my mind, but I do not want to just copy somebody else’s approach. Anyway, your car has been serving as an inspiration in my mind. That is about as far from engaging in automotive censorship as you can get.

    My slight objection to a color change on a Dino also has more to do with what it indicates, rather than the color change per se. It usually indicates a ground up restoration, something that always raises a caution flag in my mind. Then, everything is dependent on who did the restoration, and how well they did it. Similarly, a new interior in another color rarely comes out looking exactly like an original interior. You could say that the valuations I listed have more to do with the original vs. restored debate, but that was not included in the questions on this thread. That debate would be another can of worms to open, and it would surely deserve its own thread.

    Scott- Thanks for correcting me on the selling price of the Steve McQueen’s car. I had it mixed up with another car in my foggy memory, sorry about that. Still, it was a record price for a Lusso.

    Lars
     
  21. 2GT

    2GT Formula 3

    Aug 25, 2008
    1,842
    Western NY
    Full Name:
    Fred
    Lars, You are too kind! By the way, if you chose headlight covers and five-spoke wheels, you would have elements of both my cars, but it certainly wouldn't be slavish imitation. Furthermore, my covered-lights GT has the earlier bumpers, grille, wipers and front pan, unlike your car, which is equipped like my later Dino. One thing that I'm surprised no one has mentioned is the proliferation of redone seats, in Connolly cowhide. Were not all Dino seats covered in pigskin? It may be a minor point, but if huing to the original equipment on a Dino is paramount, I would think that the seat material would be an important factor in a car's concours rating. By the way, Lars, if you go for the headlight covers, please let me see some pictures! Fred
     

Share This Page