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Changes at Boeing

Discussion in 'AviatorChat.com' started by Bob Parks, Oct 11, 2019.

  1. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
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    Tom Tanner
    This is a week old. I know the numbers he based this on and the liquidity of all three airlines, or in the ball park as its public information. What do you guys think just out of curiosity? I am still hoping loads will come back somewhat before mid summer to allow this not to happen, but who knows these days.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-ceo-airline-collapse-coronavirus-2020-5
     
  2. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    Maybe the way to allow full passenger capacity is to replace the overhead oxygen masks, fed by canisters, with a different kind of mask that can be worn for the duration of the flight, fed by ambient air. Each mask will need some sort of replaceable insert that can be replaced after each flight. The emergency canisters will still be there, with a valve that would automatically switch the air in the event of an emergency. It's a bit far-fetched, but it could work.
     
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  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Lots of different face sizes required, but an interesting thought.
     
  4. jcurry

    jcurry F1 World Champ
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    the airlines would still feed recirculated through them ;)
     
  5. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Texas!
  6. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Hertz just declared Chapter 11 bankruptcy as airline and aircraft company woes ripple. You can get pretty good deals on yellow and black 2019 Z06s right now, all automatics, naturally.
     
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  7. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Eat?
    Drink?
    Rest Room?
    8 hour flight?

    Nah....
     
  8. Jacob Potts

    Jacob Potts Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2008
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    RE: Lufthansa seeking Government Bailout

    Yes, and Lufthansa is looking for that help.

    "Lufthansa is currently flying around 1% of its normal flight schedule.
    "CEO Carsten Spohr has said that continued fixed costs, like interest payments and existing fuel contracts, mean Lufthansa is losing around €1 million in cash per hour."

    https://www.dw.com/en/german-govt-to-gain-251-stake-in-lufthansa-bailout-report/a-53304930
    News
    German govt to gain 25.1% stake in Lufthansa bailout: report
     
  9. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    As I've been saying, Boeing's answer should have been an updated 757, and it may still happen!



     
  10. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    If Boeing makes a 757 again it will only share the name with the original. Nothing about it will be pulled from the original 757 so everything will be a new design and more inline with a 787 as far as technology and design.
     
  11. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    I disagree; I know of no reason why the fuselage would need to be changed, and perhaps the tail surfaces as well. The primary structural changes would be the wing and engines.
     
  12. Argosy

    Argosy Formula Junior

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    757 MAX would not work against A321XLR.
     
  13. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    Not so sure on that. It could use another generation of engines that are more efficient than what the XLR will have. The 757 would have more seats which would be an advantage.
     
  14. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Why do you say that?
     
  15. Argosy

    Argosy Formula Junior

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    Economy of big numbers.
    A321XLR can be flown by same pilots that fly A318/319/320/321. It is part of the most successful family of narrowbody airplanes in the last 30 years. Which means it's very, very economical.
    757 cannot compete with that.
     
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  16. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    You make some sense with fleet commonality although it is not universally relevant to all airlines. Look at any of the main line US airlines where they already fly (or with the addition of the XLR) a mixed fleet of Boeing and Airbus narrow bodies. Delta is adding a A220 into its fleet and that has maybe only some small component commonality with the A320 iterations.

    What Boeing has to do is get the seat mile cost and trip cost into the same frame or better than the XLR. The engines are going to be the number one pathway to that. That is an area where Boeing could leap frog the XLR by going to a newer engine development.

    I do not know if the APB split scimitar winglets will help any more with the current 757 wing with the standard APB winglets. If it is good enough then they won't need to do a new wing which would really speed up the development time.
     
  17. Argosy

    Argosy Formula Junior

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    Any engines that can go on 757 can be adopted to A32x family. You don't think Airbus is not already planning future powerplants for the type? No, 757 MAX is not a competitive idea. It might achieve limited success within current operators, but that's too small of a market to develop a new airplane + companies are already ordering A321XLRs to replace 757s, so that window of opportunity is probably already gone

    Boeing is, well, FUBARed. They don't have a single eisle to sell, in a time where it will probably be tough to sell even modern narrowbodies, let alone 787s.
     
  18. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
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    #319 F1tommy, May 28, 2020 at 4:35 PM
    Last edited: May 28, 2020 at 4:45 PM
    The A320 family is also nearing the end of it's lifetime and they will also start working on a replacement too, especially if Boeing was to make a 787 style narrow body. If Boeing does a new narrow body now they will be ahead of Airbus in 10-15 years just like there are with the 787 and were with the 777-300. Watch the new 777X end up replacing A350's and the remaining A380's down the road with many airlines just like the 77W did with the other 4 engine aircraft from Airbus..:) The 757 as a base is unlikely but an all new narrow body could be the answer.
     
  19. Argosy

    Argosy Formula Junior

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    A320 still has room to grow. They are thinking about new wing and possibly a further stretch.

    Boeing could probably do a new narrowbody. The issue is, how many companies will be willing to buy it and how much better, if at all, would it be, profitability wise, against A32x. See, the conundrum is... The vast majority of improvements today come from the engines. So, if Airbus installs the same engines on the next 320, your all new aircraft might be more efficient, but probably by lowish single digits only - and no way will you be able to match Airbus on pricing or fleet size.

    There's a tough call to be made at Boeing. As time goes by I have less and less hope 737 MAX will fly commercially again. And no Embraer deal means they have near zilch to offer to post-COVID19 market.
     
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  20. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
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    The 737 Max will fly commercially. You will eat your words before 2020 is over. That said I never liked the 737 post 737-200, although it is the perfect aircraft for Southwest to use since a fully loaded A321 has a hard time getting off the ground before the end of the runway at one of their main hubs. The only aircraft that will die due to Covid 19 will be the A380. Even the 7478 will survive as a freighter and I bet will remain in production for another 5 years or more.
     
  21. Argosy

    Argosy Formula Junior

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    Doubt it. Had it been "easily" fixable... 737 MAX would already be flying. There's a huge issue at hand. 737 MAX can only be certified as a grandfathered design. If they're unable to solve issues without hardware changes, it is not possible for MAX to be certified today. And if that is the case, Boeing will probably go bankrupt even without COVID19 issues. Doubt that they can sustain the commercial side of the company on widebodies only.
    Even on the military side, it's not rosy... F-18 is at the end of the road, might pick up a few orders here and there, same as F-15, but nothing substantional. T-7 is the only product with potential.
     
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  22. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Ever heard of the F-15EX? Not something I would have bought, but USAF is.
     
  23. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    They’ll get the max flying. But customers will be hard to find for further production.

    if they’re lucky they’ll develop a family of aircraft for the future with gov loans and no go bankrupt.

    basicaly the mbas stripped a once premier company to nothing so when the storm came there ashes blew in the wind. Sad but predictable.

    this is the same genius mentality that moved production of everything else to China.
     
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  24. kylec

    kylec F1 Rookie
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    The largest 747 parts supplier to Boeing has wound down production and sold off their equipment.
     
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