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Changing Front Wheel Bearings On an 80 308

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Shamile, Nov 30, 2003.

  1. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran
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    Dear Ferraristi,

    I tried the search but couldn't come up with anything on changing the front wheel bearings on an 80 308. I have both bearings and the seals from Ferrari but don't know how to proceed. Can it be done by a dIY? Do you need special tools....bearing puller etc. Any help would be great.
     
  2. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    Go back into the 'Old FerrariChat.com' archives and search them.
    It's a pretty standard wheel bearing replacement procedure.

    You'll need a large metric socket (don't recall the size, possibly 22 or 23 mm) for the spindle nut & replacement spindle nuts are strongly recommended. (The nuts are the type with a thin rim that's bent into a groove in the spindle to lock the nut into place.)

    Be very careful when pulling the calipers. There are thin shim washers between the caliper and hub held in place by caliper bolts. The shims ensure the caliper is parallel with the rotors. They tend to stick into place until the caliper is half-out, then fall to the floor & you can't tell which bolt had which shims.

    AHAH, found my old wheel bearing posts:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/256120/4360.html
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/256120/26445.html
    Strongly recommend you read them.
    Lots of detail & tips on re-installing the shims (a PITA).

    Another tip:
    use a board or something between the front of the driver's seat to wedge the brake pedal part way down. That way the brake reservoir isn't drained if you have to disconnect a brake line. I was able to get my caliper bolts off w/o disconnecting the brake lines, but had to bend one of the S-shaped lines slightly to get the bolt head thru it.
     
  3. ricrain

    ricrain Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
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    I've written this up before, so it's out there somewhere. It's a DIY and no special tools are needed, except maybe a press or bearing drift kit.

    Here's a much abbreviated version…

    1. Jack up front of car, place on jack stands.
    2. Remove front wheel.
    3. Remove dust shield and front caliper from the hub. This requires a disconnection of the brake hydraulics. Cap the lines so the brake reservoir doesn't drain out. Make sure to keep track of the count and location of the shims between the brake caliper and the hub. Make note of the order of the brake caliper, dust shield, shims, etc.
    4. Remove the two retaining pins and the brake rotor.
    5. Remove the grease cap from the hub. This can be done with a pair of channel lock pliers by “wiggling” the cap out. Use hard rubber or aluminum foil to avoid marring the cap.
    6. Tap out the locking detents with a punch and remove the large nut from the spindle (24mm? I don't recall).
    7. Remove the hub (pull straight out)
    8. The two bearings are pressed into the hub with an oil (grease) seal on the back. Use a press or bearing drift kit to remove these items.
    9. Wash the spindle and drive hub thoroughly.
    10. Scuff the sealing surface on the spindle with green ScotchBrite to clear off any “mirror-like” finish.
    11. Install new bearings packed with appropriate grease (I use Mobil 1 Synthetic).
    12. Install the new oil seal and mount the hub to the spindle, being careful not to “lip” the oil seal.
    13. Pack with grease and install the outer bearing cage.
    14. Torque the big nut to 18 lb/ft and rotate the hub two full turns.
    15. Back off the torque and then re-torque 11 lb/ft to the standard spec.
    16. Lock the nut. If the locking area is damaged beyond use, replace the nut.
    17. Add more grease around the nut.
    18. Install the grease cap.
    19. Install the rotor, brake calipers and dust shield.
    20. Install wheels.
     
  4. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran
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    Dear Ferraristi,

    Wow....Thanks for the great advice. I will read up on the proceedure a few times then hold my breath and try it.

    Thanks again Verrell, and Ric...enjoy the music.

    Shamile
     
  5. rivee

    rivee F1 Rookie

    Jan 20, 2002
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    Shamile, one thing I would do is to replace all the front bearings and seals. I checked mine when I bought my F-car 2 years ago, and when I removed the grease cap the outer race and bearings fell out in a pile of burnt metal dust.

    The bearings can be readily bought from anywhere that sells bearings. Check the number on the race for cross ref. I think I paid under $50 for all the front bearings.
     
  6. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    Shamille,
    Just tell any auto parts store you need
    2 each of std wheel bearing 'set 6' and 'set 2'. Should cost about $28-$35 for the 4 bearing sets. Don't confuse them by telling them it's for a Ferrari which they won't have any cross-reference info for.

    You'll have get the numbers off of the side of the seal, or even better
    take the cleaned up seal to almost any commercial 'bearing supply' store. They'll either have it in stock, or can get it in a couple of days.
     
  7. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    Haven't tried them, by the time you've paid shipping you probably would be better off to stop by the local NAPA/Auto Zone/PepBoys.

    Note that they aren't offering the seal you'll also need.
     
  8. Sean F.

    Sean F. F1 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2003
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    Verell,

    are those the same on early carb's 308's as the later cars?
     
  9. 4re gt4

    4re gt4 Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2002
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    I've heard that there are different early/late bearings. Try fiddling with the parts catalog on the Owner's Site to find out for sure.
     
  10. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran
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    Dear Ferraristi,

    I don't need to worry about the bearing part and seals. I already got BURNED by buying them from Ferrari. $ 289 for both front wheels, seals & new crimp nuts.

    I wonder, what is a drift kit? What tools do you actually need to do the job. I don't want to get into the job and realize I don't have what's necessary. :)
     
  11. Sean F.

    Sean F. F1 Rookie

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    Ouch, you got taken.

    Ferrari UK has them on their web site for less than $40 for all 4-front wheel bearings. (6.05GBP each x 4 = 24.2 x 1.6 = $38.72)
     
  12. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    The 328s used different seals, but I"m pretty confident that all 308s from the GT4s forward used the same front wheel bearings. Newest I actually have experience with is my '82 QV & it uses the set 6/set 2 bearings.

    Ferrari.uk's price is reasonable, but don't forget the shipping costs.

    Someone asked about a bearing 'drift' set. I think Ric was referring to a bearing/seal installer set such as Eastwood's 'Bearing Race And Seal Driver item no: 49048'. They're cheap & if you're going to work on a car, you really should have one. You can pick sets up at any auto parts store, usually for $20 or so.
     
  13. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Rookie
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    Friends,

    I got a set of front wheel bearings from superformance still trying to figure out how to go about removing the calipers etc. Anyway the bearings are made by BREDA? I have never heard of that company and am wondering if they are of the same quality as a skf? I also got a set of seals which show up on the 78 gtb parts manual but on my 75 all the parts have the same numbers but there is no inner seal listed on the parts table. Can anyone shed any light on these questions?

    Thanks,

    Rob
     
  14. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    There's only 1 seal for each front wheel, it's the inner one. The dust cap serves as an outer seal.

    Not familiar with BREDA, but if it's from Superformance.co.uk I wouldn't be concerned.

    In general, bearings are extremely standardized. The 3x8 front wheel bearings are common to an awful lot of cars. You can get them from NAPA, AZ, Pep Boys. for about $15/wheel. Usually will be Temkin or another major bearing mfg.

    Ric Rainbolt's procedure earlier in this thread should help you get your caliper off.
     
  15. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Rookie
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    #16 robertgarven, Jul 29, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Verell et al,

    I haven't disassembled it yet (tomorrrow)but on the gt4 in the parts book there is no rear seal (#21) and the bearings have different numbers than the 78 GTB/S parts book I have. I have a couple of other questions.

    1. The bearings came covered in oil do I need to clean this off or just pack them as is? (that is asssuming they are the right ones).

    2. I am leaning towards your removing the bolt on the bottom of the upper ball joint. Is there any special trick to this, other than in your thread?

    3. Does the caliper bolt onto the shield or the hub, On the rear it bolts to the hub but from the pic I cant tell where it bolts on to?? and are the shims betweeen the caliper and shield or between the shield and hub?

    4 What are the parts 13 & 14, they look like some kind of spacers???

    Thanks,

    I am hoping once i try to take it apart it will become more apparent just dont want any suprises! :)

    Rob
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  16. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Rookie
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    Well..

    I spent about 8 hours just getting the drivers side caliper off. Ric's description seemed so easy! Ok here is what happened:

    I decided to use Verell's method of removing the nut on the bottom of the top ball joint as it seemed the easiest so I thought I would loosen the dust cap first. Well, I spent about an hour getting it off, I shot PB plaster in the crack around a week ago. I tried a pair of large channel locks as Ric suggested. I put a large screwdriver in a slot in the brake disc so it would not turn. To make a long story short I had no luck and scraped up the cap pretty good. I ended up using a small hammer with a wooden handle and hammered all the way around the lip and after a while the channel locks worked wiggling it out. The grease in there looked good and there was a whole bunch of it. I almost stopped as it has only gone around 15,000 miles since it was done last, but it has been 15 years and I have all the parts. My friend Martin said to forget it but I am on a mission and hopefully you guys can walk me through it!

    I spent another couple of hours trying to get the cotter pin out and was surprised when the bolt on the bottom of the ball joint was not that tight. The nut however would not come off as it bottomed into the rubber brake hose end. Verell says his ball joint popped off easily, but mine I could not get it off I pried a little and tapped with a plastic hammer and even jacked the car up by the bottom of the bottom ball joint but no luck. I think that you need a device to remove it. I have one somewhere but think that I would have to disassemble more of the front suspension and I was going to save that for another project, I just wanted to replace the bearings now. In order to remove the bracket the ball joint must come out so the nut can be removed. I replaced the nut and decided to try to remove the s shaped hard line option instead. I bled the brakes with my drain man sucker device. The fittings of the hard s line were very easy to loosen but I could not get the top part out of the bracket. I unscrewed the fitting and loosened the bottom one but not until I cupped the neck of the ball peen hammer in the top crook of the S and pulled as hard as I could would it come out.

    After that the caliper came off easy with the expected I thick washer on the bolt and a thin shim in between the hub and the inside of the caliper.

    I have a couple of questions:

    How would you remove the rubber brake line? I was thinking of unscrewing the rubber line to back it out of the bracket to facilitate the removal of the top part of the s shaped fitting. The rubber line screws into the bracket and has a tab bent down on it and the other side has a larger nut and two tabs bent down locking it. Since the rubber line has ends that do not rotate and the nut you screw it into is locked down how would you replace the line. If you screwed one end in you would not be able to screw the other end in as neither of the 4 sides rotates???!!? I have new lines and unbent the tabs on the s side of the bracket and was considering replacing it. It was a 24mm nut I have quite a bit of tools and could not find a 24mm wrench that would fit in there. After working at it and thinking about it for a while I gave up and wanted to ask you guys how its done!

    2. Do the bearings go a certain way, meaning is there a front side and a back side or does it matter?

    Thanks for any suggestions!

    Rob
     
  17. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Rookie
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    #18 robertgarven, Jul 31, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Friends,

    Since no one responded I went into battle alone! Here is what happened today:

    I was buoyed by yesterday’s minor successes, so today I removed the retaining nuts. Verell’s suggestion about the small wrench worked great. I used a prick punch and a small round punch to open up the indentation a little. (The previous mechanic sure hammered it down hard) I then used a 7mm craftsman standard open-end wrench and tapped it in the slot with a small ball pien hammer and pried, and both nuts came off without to much drama. I was worried I would strip the threads if the nut was not opened up enough but the end of the shaft has no threads! The passenger side was a little harder until I remembered the left-handed threads!

    I am not sure about the suggestions about how easy it was to remove the brackets without having to unhook the brake lines. I would suggest to another novice like myself to bleed the brake lines and unhook the top fitting at the s hard line with a 11mm wrench then loosen slightly the bottom fitting and just swivel it out of the way after you unscrew the top and pull like Hercules to get the top fitting out of its hole! I was worried that brake fluid would shoot out like in Monty Pythons knight in the holy grail movie but not one drop was too be seen.

    The spindle and threads looked good the only piece that was bad was the retaining washer on the passenger side, the tab that goes in the spindle groove was almost gone. I will replace that.
    BTW even though the parts manual above shows no seal there is one on the back as in the 78 GTB parts book.

    My next challenge is getting the races out of the hub? I have a bearing drift kit from Eastwood and a 3-ton press but the front race is butted up next to a thin shoulder and I am not sure how to remove it. I am also at a loss how to remove the back bearing. I stopped after cleaning up. I try to keep the garage as clean as the Ferrari factory, after reading Alan Bishop’s book of Ferrari tips.

    Anyway I could use some help here guys, you know I am writing a book on Ferrari repair for dummies and this will be a chapter, and you guys are all the co-authors! I am writing it not only for others but also for my self. I am hoping to get it finished before my memory fails me. I am hoping to get it finished before my memory fails me, so I can read it to remember what to do next time. I’m not kidding I just turned 50 and my memory and eyesight are not what this ex-rocker used to be!!! What is funny I still have my hearing, how ironic?!!

    Thanks for listening and any useful comments, once again:

    How do I get those damn front and rear bearings out of the hub?! &
    I also started a new thread on how do you remove & replace the brake lines?!! It would seem easy but I can’t figure it out for the life of me?

    :p

    Rob

    BTW look at the difference between the original dust cap and the replacement one, does anyone have a source for the original more rounded one?
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  18. wolftalk

    wolftalk Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2004
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    doesn't the shorter dust cap allow you to go with the qv/328 rims?
    I seem to recall you have to grind a bit off the end of the spindle, though.
    where did you get the new cap from?

    I'd guess you'd need a press to easily r&r the bearings from the hub. If you don't have one handy, or don't want to get a cheap one from someplace like harbor freight (a bottle jack in a frame), then I'd pop into a machine shop and let them do it for a few bucks.
     
  19. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

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    #20 jwise, Jul 31, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    My experience is with a 308 QV, so I hope they are the same.

    Rear grease seal: This needs a seal puller (you can see it in my photo to the right of the hub) to remove. It should be held in with friction alone. Once the seal is out of the way, the rear bearing will fall out of the hub.

    You also asked about the front bearing? It will just fall out once the spindle nut and tabbed washer are out of the way.

    The bearing races are also held in with friction alone. To remove, I just used a flat head screw driver and heavy hammer and popped them out with a few good blows. Just be careful not to gouge the side of the hub. It's not difficult at all. If this doesn't work, you could heat the hub up in an oven. Install is the opposite- no press needed. I used the seal press on the outer races. I have a 12 ton press, but it was not needed during this proceedre. Then (see picture), after loading the new bearings with high temp moly grease, I installed the new rear grease seal with a seal driver and plastic hammer.

    There is no way to install the bearings backwards- they are cone shaped.

    I also have posted a photo of the bearings I used. I bought them at NAPA.

    Again- this was all on a 308 QV, so your car may be different, but the photos you posted look the same.

    good luck, and I hope this helps.

    jwise
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  20. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Rookie
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    #21 robertgarven, Jul 31, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks,

    Do you need to clean the oil off the new bearings before you pack them? I am using redline high pressure grease, it is what I used in the cv joints and was highly recommended to me by guys that use it in racing apps. I appreciate the help this is new to me the rears were sealed!! :p

    Rob

    Cant find the dust seal the gold ones I got from ferrari 10 years ago and the round original one fits fine in my qv wheels no modification needed. I have heard this before but have not had any problems and the wheels look like no one modified them either?
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  21. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    Is that the part number for the front bearing from NAPA? BR6 and BR2?
     
  22. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
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    yep- I think it was about $30 for all four.


    No need to strip that shipping oil off of the bearings.
     
  23. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    If you have to drive the inner races out, I recommend using a seal press like the one in JWise's earlier pix. They usually come with enough disc sizes that you can find one that will just pick up the end of the race. Alternatively, find a large socket that just fits.

    By using a socket or seal press, you won't risk gouging up the bearing mounting surface(been there... Don't ask), and it's much easier to see if the race is starting to cock sideways. If you have a press, they drive the race out smoothly. Even if you have to do it with a hammer, they let you do a smooth job.

    Just ask for 'set 2' and 'set 6' at almost any auto parts store. They'll know what you mean. Also several of the common supplier p/ns are in this thread:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28256
     
  24. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

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    #25 jwise, Aug 2, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Agreed- but you need to go through the smaller outer opening in the hub to drive out the larger inner race, so there is no way to get the disk in there in the first place. Am I remembering this right? The seal press worked on the smaller outer race, but not the larger.
    With those, I just tapped them out with a hammer. I'm remebering a piece of hardwood somewhere in this process. A heavy hammer and taps around the edge took about fifteen minutes each. I sprayed a little PB Blaster on them first.

    I think some seal press kits come with more sizes than mine did- I think there were about 6 disks in the one I bought from Summit Racing.

    Here is how mine looked coming off the car- not very pretty. You can see the weird rusty grooves in the race. I had no option but to replace.
    In the last photo I tried to show the very small lip you need to get a hold of to drive out the outer small race. You can see it through the opening in the hub.

    Edit: maybe the inner bearings are the smaller? I can't remember.

    jwise
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