Charles Leclerc, Ferrari Junior driver

Typically winning the WCC would mean you have the best car (as Senna, Shumi benefited from) So yes my point stands that Ham has won a championship without the best car. Having said that Ferrari had a championship winning car this year, Vettel couldn't pull it off like Ham did

 

Schumi won championships in 1994 and 1995 without the best car. Similarly, senna did it in 1991. However, in 2008, McLaren were the best overall car (as a result of their using the cheats they learnt in 2007) and only heikkis ineptitude cost them the constructors


Forza Ferrari..... the only racing team and car marque that matters. Italia forever It’s easier to apologise than it is to ask permission

 

If you add cheating to the equation, Schumacher would only have 4 championships

 

It's true that the 2 titles won at Benetton left a cloud of suspicion behind them.

 

You are twisting and turning with that Senna/Schumacher drivel.... simple question: which car this year was better? The Mercedes (should be according your own logic winning the WCC) or the Ferrari?

 

OK...which three championships are gained by cheating?

 

Why? You are the one saying that it is only cheating when punished by the FIA (you repeatingly said so when Mercedes was suspected) but the FIA did not find any illegal traction control... but still you talk these championships away contradicting yourself big time!!!

 

Cos they are all jealous of Schumi being the greatest ever, and no amount of titles will ever get Elton recognised as anywhere near the talent of Schumi

 

Did you read my post? I already answered your question. Mercedes would be considered having the better car this year, but by such a small margin as Ferrari lead in points earlier as they had a championship winning car as well. Hence Vettel outscoring Bottas. Ham has already won in with and without the best car.

 

Hopefully that wasn't directed towards me, im a Schumi fan. Why would i be jealous when my driver is holding another trophy this year? you are the one living in the past.

 

No, you did not answer my post before....but I think it is interesting that you think the Mercedes was better as I know most of the Hamilton fans would certainly deny that. And just as the Mercedes was only a margin better than the Ferrai I would say the Ferrari of 2008 was better with just the same small margin so no reason to overly praise Lewis for winning with it like it is a miracle. The fact that the Ferrari won the WCC is mostly down to the fact that Kovallainen was certainly the weakest of the four drivers.
And as you refer to Schumacher more often than not: the Benetton certainly was not the better car than the Williams.... remains still the question which 3 championships of Michael were achieved by cheating?

 

I’m not the one posting ad nauseum about Elton and making up stats to suit very thin arguments


Forza Ferrari..... the only racing team and car marque that matters. Italia forever It’s easier to apologise than it is to ask permission

 

I was only stating the facts for the Ham haters that say Ham can't win without the best car. I see you choose to say Kovallainen being bad made the difference, instead of Ham being good making the difference, i'm not surprised.

 

Are you saying you rate Heikki then? Wow, the guy was out of his depth in F1. I don’t recall anyone saying Elton wasn’t a fast driver, it’s just that none of us think he’s great, there’s a big difference. Not sure why you think everyone has to agree with your slanted views

 

Well, Kovallainen was sacked a year later and never was within the top ten at any race later... if you think that Heiki was anywere near Lewis, Kimi or Feilippe you must be kidding... so yes, despite even Heiki winning a race in the McLaren he certainly was the weakest driver of them
Still wainting for the three WDC Schumacher won by cheating.....

 

That ^ is a great definition of irony.
In this case not knowing the difference between a definition and an example.

 

Not sure why you think everyone has to agree with your views of Ham not being great. Chatting with you guys is just fun for me. I don't take the views here about Ham seriously being that mostly every big name in F1 has already said he is one of the greats.

 

Is this secretly another Hamilton thread?

 

I don’t think that at all, it’s very clear Elton, and others have their fans. I react when people like you try to cheerlead for him in every thread and are derogatory towards ferrari, and, despite supposedly being a Schumi fan, denigrate his championship wins with ******** claims

 

No, but some Elton fans can’t help but try to start the denigration of another ferrari driver even before the guy turns a wheel for us. They must somehow be terrified chuck will prove to be the ‘good angel’ version of ‘bad angel’ Max, and their hero will be frightened to death of two people on the grid

 

Seems so. Should be more a celebration and speculation of Charles arriving and how it will impact Vettel if any other driver

 

I think he’ll either focus Vettel on his job and we will have Seb the champion back for us next year, or the pressure (IF chuck performs how we all expect him too) will prove too much and we will see more of the silly mistakes that has plagued him this year. Hopefully the former. Chuck is a great prospect, and when we signed him, I was pleased we hadn’t missed out and had to watch him go to mercedes or red bull, but I’m sure he will need time in the car before he can realistically put together a consistent title run. Wins and podiums, however, if ferrari provide a decent car, those should come in his first season, podiums maybe very quickly in the first season.

I think of you are going to learn from a teammate, Seb is likely to be one of the best to learn from as long as Ferrari nurture the relationship between the drivers properly. If chuck shows he is willing to learn and is a little subservient to Seb, I think Seb will feel comfortable with it, if he turns up like Ricci or Max did and tries to impose himself on Seb, then that could go to pot really quickly

 

Still waiting for the three championships of Michael gained by cheating....
And it is hilarious that those the most vocal about "Lewis haters dismissing his achievements" are the very same persons (one has just to look at the likes of the quoted post) that easily talk down three entire championships of Schumacher. Now that is what I call double standards, absolutely sensational....

 

Was just thinking the same thing.

Same cast of characters from the Hamilton Haters thread carrying on an argument about who's
best onto a thread about Leclerc.

Opens door, pulls pin, throws in grenade, Leclerc is going to kick Vettel's ass in 2019!

BHW

 

Why would you be surprised about double standards, the thread is about Leclerc yet you continue to drone on about MS.

Dismissing or talking down the achievements of multi WDC winning drivers is a two way street, which could be considered lame attempts at attacking the poster with a contrary view.

I would go as far to say that any real F1 fan that has even the slightest modicum of knowledge, would acknowledge the likes of Hamilton and Schumacher ect are and were certainly a cut above your average F1 driver, and the difference between these drivers is always going to be a debatable one. However taking into account when MS raced in his prime, under different rules and conditions ect makes it a futile moot point, with no practical value IMO.
It's going to be very interesting to see how Vettel and LeClerc pan out, I feel this year Kimi has somewhat suffered because Ferrari favoured Vettel, but will Leclerc stand for them backing the wrong horse if Vettel keeps making mistakes