Chassis 1C/10S Updated Information | Page 4 | FerrariChat

Chassis 1C/10S Updated Information

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by jawsalfa, Jun 28, 2008.

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  1. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

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    #76 dretceterini, Jul 2, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2008
    The 1946 drawings from the Colombo book appear to show a 1255mm front track and a 1200mm rear track. The w/b doesn't show, but based on trying to measure it by scaling up the drawing, it appears to be about 2500mm.

    What is more interesting is that on this drawing, the center cross-brace just rear of the tail end of the gearbox is a simple "X", rather than the more complicated brace shown on the 166 on the Gilco site, as below..

    http://www.gilcodesign.com/doc/des/Ferrari125.htm

    This page from the Gilco book is also very interesting, as the "photo" at the top of the page seems to show a simple "X" cross-brace, but the line drawing seems to show the more complicated one!
     
  2. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Great Link!

    More 002C @ Targa:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/napolisjmg
     
  3. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

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    #78 dretceterini, Jul 2, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2008
    Here is the 1946 Colombo drawing, showing the cross-brace as a simple "X".

    [​IMG]
    By dretceterini at 2008-07-02
     
  4. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #79 Napolis, Jul 2, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2008
    You car really see the smaller rear track in that drawing.

    Best

    The chassis on the web site looks very much like 002C's.

    Best
     
  5. t walgamuth

    t walgamuth Formula Junior

    Mar 13, 2005
    850
    Wouldn't track be measured from the center of the rim?

    Are some tires not symetrical side to side?

    Tom W
     
  6. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

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    Yes, technically from center of rim to center of rim. Back then, (as far as I am aware) all tires were symmetrical
     
  7. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

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    Not to kick in an open door, but neither car would have come with a Smiths revcounter (Jaguar?)
     
  8. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I was talking about Bill Noon's measurments in the field of 1C front track. As the car was sitting with tires mounted on grass the measurement would not be exact.

    002C's Jaeger rev counter is correct.
     
  9. t walgamuth

    t walgamuth Formula Junior

    Mar 13, 2005
    850
    Yes, of course.

    Measuring track is pretty tough in the field with a tape, if you want it exact.

    Tom W
     
  10. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

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    Jim,

    Not attacking your revcounter's originality!

    The first series of pics posted of 1C shows a Jaguar-style (not Jaeger) Smiths revcounter on the right hand side, and I think it highly doubtful that such an instrument would have been original to the car when it left the factory, nor to the Mtta body.

    Btw, the youtube links show me a NLA; is that right?
     
  11. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Hi

    I thought you meant the shot of 002C's rev counter in one of the videos.

    NLA ???

    Best
     
  12. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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  13. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

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    Jim,

    Yes, no longer available.

    I just tried again and the same message was displayed.
     
  14. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Strange as it comes up for me. Try rebooting. I'll check from a different computer.

    Best
     
  15. Randy Forbes

    Randy Forbes Formula Junior

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    They just worked for me.
     
  16. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

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    All 3 work for me...
     
  17. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn F1 Rookie
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    #92 Boudewijn, Jul 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  18. emiel

    emiel Karting

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    Once again, Amazing pics Boudewijn! keep up the good work!
     
  19. jawsalfa

    jawsalfa Karting

    Mar 2, 2008
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    Yes, thank you for digging these photos up. An observation...Is there any clear explanation why the drawings/photos that drecceterini and boudewijn posted would be different from the columbo drawings that Napolis posted (in the old thread)? Primary difference being the "X" (wishbone) frame design with some showing the lateral cross member and others not. Is there anything else that we might glean from the actual metalwork on the actual chassis of 1C/10S to help with identification? Also, what would be some of the reasons that the frame of 1C/10S would have been modified (particularly the suspension upgrades) as it appears to have been? If presumably done to improve racing performance, then why is there no record of this chassis #10S in the race records?
     
  20. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #95 Napolis, Jul 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The problem is that there is no record of any chassis stamped 1C or 10 S that has come to light anywhere. The other problem is that there is no stamping on the left side of the front cross member where it would normally be. That is probably the next step. Removing the paint on the front cross member to see if there is any trace of a stamping on that tube at all or to try and determine if that tube is original.

    It would also be telling to see a shot of that entire cross rail. If it is from an early car it will have a cutout in it to allow a hand crank to pass through and engage the crank like 002C chassis does.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  21. jawsalfa

    jawsalfa Karting

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    Thanks. We will look into this and report back. Just so I am clear, are there supposed to be two stampings on the front cross member?, or should there be a stamping on the left longitudinal frame rail? Kindly clarify.
     
  22. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    One stamping on the left side of the front cross tube. (Left side facing towards the nose) (Right side facing rear)

    Facing the rear the stamp reads 002.
     
  23. johnei

    johnei Formula 3
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    Typical, I go away on vacation for a week and miss everything.

    jawsalfa,

    Thank you for posting the pictures and starting this thread. I enjoyed meeting your father at the Palm Springs show and having a chance to look around the car.
     
  24. jawsalfa

    jawsalfa Karting

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    A couple of things to report.... To clarify, the "1C" stamping (photo in original thread) IS located on the front left crossmember and the "10S" stamping is located on the longitudinal frame rail near the firewall.

    If you inspect the initial string of photos that I posted, one will see that it looks as if the chassis 1C/10S has been modified to accomodate a later suspension/shock configuration. IMHO, it looks as if the two front "chassis extenders" that were needed to support the original Armstrong-type front suspension have been modified (cut away) to enable the Houdaille shock conversion (see photos in my first posting). As such, it appears that the front cross member stamp location of 002C has been "lost".
    Does anyone here know how many of the early chassis made by Ferrari would have been originally configured for armstrong-type suspension? While I don't know the answer (hopefully someone here does though), I would assume that very few chassis would have any metalwork artifacts showing this type of suspension mount in use. I'm not certain, however, I believe that the conversion to the Houdaille variety was adopted quite early on in chassis design history (even as early as the 166 chassis evolution). This "modification" from armstrong to Houdaille suspension makes some sense (at least to this writer), as the original suspension configuration (armstrong-type) was probably seen as inferior (from a racing point of view) to that of Houdaille and would have been replaced/upgraded for performance reasons. Just my 2 cents...
     
  25. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #100 Napolis, Jul 6, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

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