Check Engine And Slow Down Light 355 - 2,7 | FerrariChat
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Check Engine And Slow Down Light 355 - 2,7

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Mr Dobermann, Apr 12, 2009.

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  1. Mr Dobermann

    Mr Dobermann Karting

    Jul 31, 2005
    162
    #1 Mr Dobermann, Apr 12, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2009
    After sorting out the dead short in the accelerometer, and the cablefire that i had in my 355, i turned the key and the car started immediately. It did not blow the AC/Instrumentfuse anymore. Both taillights was on, and the cabin fan worked again.

    Next day when i turned the key and wanted to take a test-drive, it didnt start. I immediately got the slow-down light on bank 5-8, and also the check engine light on the same bank. Strange. Since i had test/race-pipes on, it could not be cats overheating in any way, the car also had been parked for over night. Then it started only on the 1-4 bank, so i turned it off. Then i cleaned the Lambdasensors and swapped them, and tryed - it started, but it started with coughs... but check engine light was gone and also the slow down light. Then i drove it a little(maybe an hour), it ran really smooth and good. So far very nice. I was at least a little happy.

    Yesterday i tryed again. It only started on 1-4 bank. Check engine and slow down was there. Cleaned and swapped the lambdas again, and also swapped the thermosensors. Nope. It only ran on one side. The 5-8 bank was shut off. Then i left my garage for the day...

    Today i have gone trough a lot. I cleaned the lambdas and thermosensors, swapped them, also swapped the ECU:S, and the thermosensors ECU:s, tryed with the OEM cats, cleaned all the connectors, cleaned and swapped the MAF:s, opened the aircleaning-boxes, i even replaced the spark plugs on the 5-8 bank, but no. It wont start on this bank, only on the 1-4 bank. The warninglights are there from 5-8-bank. When replacing and investigating the sparks they looked dry. It doesnt seem to get fuel, BUT - is this a result of the 5-8 bank closing down, or is this bank closing down because it doesnt get fuel..? I checked all the fuses over and over again, and i swapped the relays. All good.

    Anyone?

    Regardeing the check engine lights/slow down lights, do i need to shut these down with a OBD-reader or can they go away by them selves, as they did on Friday?

    I know that i need to read out the error-codes, but i havent been able to do this yet, its Easter and everything this weekend.

    Advice? This car is starting to annoy me... It ran so good earlier but now it wont... It feels like the dead-short has put some bugs somewhere...

    Kimmo.
     
  2. 335s

    335s Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2007
    870
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    T. Monma
    #2 335s, Apr 12, 2009
    It would be helpful if you understood completely how and what is going on in the system as you initialize the circuits for start and then run..pay attention to circuit 30, 50, and 15...as I recall....the relay for the fuel pumps is thrown by the ecu based on loigic inputs and probably a 720 RPM decision circuit...things like TDC sensors, camshaft angle sensors, and the cogged reluctance wheel on the nose of the craNKshaft are the primary drivers for this circuit.
    In short, if the ecu doesn't think that the car is turning over, then it won't throw the ground for the fuel pump relay which is also tied to ignition relays(2 of each, for each)...
    Do you have a wiring schematic?
    Without this, you are asking questions for which you cannot be told the answers...primary load sensors and closed loop dipoles mean nothing if the car is "not turning over"...if the sensor is DOA/FUBAR, then all of this other busy work means NOTHING.
    ALWAYS start with the basics...spark, fuel....then worry about items which affect running condition, as oppossed to just plain running...
    ALSO, how are your overvoltage protection relay fuses(10 amp RED GM fuses, 2 of them)???

    Let us know how this works out....
     
  3. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,614
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    #3 ernie, Apr 12, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2009
    Completely disconnect the cat ecu's and then give it a go. I want to rule out a bad cat ecu as the cause of your non-start problem. If the Motronic thinks it is getting an over heating signal from the cat ecu it WILL completely shut down a bank. The car will run with them disconnected. I know because I have had them completely removed from my 348 (2.7) for over 5 years. You will get a silent engine code stored in the Motronic (4121 if my memory serves me correct) but you shouldn't get a check engine light for it, at least I don't get one on my 348, and yes wise-asses my check engine lights work. :p

    You do not need the cat ecu's if you have no cats, there is ZER0 risk of a pipe over heating. ;) So complete disconnect the suckers.

    Oh yeah, and the caveman way of resetting the ecu's is to disconnect the battery. But after you reconnect it be sure to let the car relearn the warm up parameters. Let is sit and idle for about 15 minutes. Make sure EVERYTHING is turned off, and DO NOT touch anything. Just let it sit and idle until the radiators fans kick on. As for the lights going away by themselves, after 50 starts of the car if the codes haven't been pulled they will get cleared out by the Motronic. But it's easier and faster to just disconnect the battery, and again, don't forget to let it relearn the warm up parameters from when the engine is stone cold.
     
  4. Mr Dobermann

    Mr Dobermann Karting

    Jul 31, 2005
    162
    #4 Mr Dobermann, Apr 13, 2009
    ernie: I have already disconnected the "cat-ECU:s", and tryed. Nope, the codes remain on 5-8 bank, but also the slow-down-light for the 1-4 bank appears, as it should when i plugged them both out.

    I know about the Motronic-learning parameters, but this is pretty unimportant for me as long as i cannot get the engine running correctly.

    355s: I have read somewhere that the TDC-sensor can be the reason for this, if it is out of order or if it has dirt on it. I have cleaned them both, but i will look at this again. The camshaft sensor is on the rear of bank 1-4, and this bank runs, so i guess this can be ruled out.

    I have the wiring schematics to this car, but its quite hard to read them correct for a "layman" as me in electrics. I think i will just take my car to a Ferrari-workshop or to a really good car-electronic-workshop for a diagnose.

    Thank you.

    Kimmo.
     
  5. FerrariEngineer

    FerrariEngineer Karting
    BANNED

    Apr 8, 2009
    85
    ww.exoticars-usa.com
    Full Name:
    Serkan Ozsavasci
    #5 FerrariEngineer, Apr 13, 2009
    All ways whit the basics ,Spark - Fuel (Pressure and The Value) Compression , Back pressure ex.. Please inform
     
  6. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,614
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    #6 ernie, Apr 13, 2009
    Well Kimmo the next step is to actually pull the engine codes to find out what the Motronic has stored in it. Just know that you will get crank sensor codes if the car is not running, even if the crank sensors are good. I know you are only running on one bank but, IF you can, pull the codes with the engine running.

    You could have a bad fuel pressure regulator, or it could be a bad fuel pump relay, or a blow fuse, or a bad crank sensor, etcetera, etcetera. So rather than playing the guessing game pull the codes and see what the Motronic has stored.
     
  7. Mr Dobermann

    Mr Dobermann Karting

    Jul 31, 2005
    162
    #7 Mr Dobermann, Apr 13, 2009
    First thing i did today was to clean and check the TDC-sensors. I bleeded the coolant-system 2 days ago when the car was running, and my thought was that maybe it had got coolant down there, the sensors sit almost straight down, seen from the bleeding screw.

    Turned the key, the car started perfectly right away. I let it warm up, checked the fluids and took it for a little drive. After apx 1 km the lights from bank 5/8 came again, and it started struggling... Turned immediately and got to my garage.

    loosened the sensors, both, and cleaned them more thorougly. Also checked and cleaned the contacts with oxide-cleaner and then treated them with protectant. Sealed all small gaps/cracks with heat-resistant silocone. turned key after a while, it started perfectly again.

    Im glad that ive found this issue. Im gonna order new sensors anyway. Just to be sure.

    Thank you for the inputs.

    Kimmo.
     
  8. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,614
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    #8 ernie, Apr 13, 2009
    Hey Kimmo!!!

    Before you order the crank sensors run a search of the archive to look for Kia cranks sensors. A couple of the 348 brothers have used them on their cars with good results. I don't remember the exact part number for the Kia crank sensors but a few guys have used them. So.......since you car is running the 2.7 I would assume that you could use the same sensors at a nice discount. I think they could be listed in the 348 parts exchange thread?
     
  9. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,614
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    #9 ernie, Apr 13, 2009
  10. Mr Dobermann

    Mr Dobermann Karting

    Jul 31, 2005
    162
    #10 Mr Dobermann, Apr 13, 2009
    Thanks ernie. I will check this out.

    So far so good, started it again a couple of times during this evening, and it started right on every time. Allthough i feel quite fed up with this car...

    Still the cabin fan is working when it feels like it(Has been that way since i bought the car), and the right headlight motor doesnt work like it should...

    Kimmo/Sweden.
     
  11. johan6504

    johan6504 Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2005
    1,168
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    Johan
    #11 johan6504, Apr 14, 2009
    Just hang in there, you are goning to get throuh this....
     

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