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Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by RAC911, Nov 6, 2009.

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  1. RAC911

    RAC911 Karting

    Jun 8, 2006
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    Ralph Cacace
    #1 RAC911, Nov 6, 2009
    F355 Spider 1996- error codes stated all 4 sensors not working. Four new sensors installed. Check Engine Light is stillon. Reset the codes, same thing. Measured output of sensor at the sensor .42 volts and signal waveform is correct. No obvious wiring problems. Just purchased the car. Cannot beleive all four sensoors or ignition modules have fauiled. Car runs OK but in open loop.
     
  2. North East Auto Doctors

    North East Auto Doctors Karting
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    Nov 11, 2009
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    #2 North East Auto Doctors, Nov 11, 2009
    sorry i dont have my code look up im guessing you mean all four oxygen sensors are failed are the codes your getting? Why did you mention ignition modules? are you reading with a sd1 or a generic obd2 reader? give me more info and im sure i can help
     
  3. jjsaustin

    jjsaustin Formula Junior

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    #3 jjsaustin, Nov 11, 2009
    I would try turning the battery switch off, then back on.
     
  4. RAC911

    RAC911 Karting

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    #4 RAC911, Nov 12, 2009
    I unfortunately only have schematics for the F355 2.7 engine not the 5.2. The schematic shows the O2 sendors going to two seperate ignition boxes. This may be different for the 5.2 engine. The readings were taken on a generatic obd2 reader and verified on the Ferrari SD2 computer. The SD2 shows the engine operating in open loop with no output from the four sensors yet at the senors there are signals.
     
  5. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    #5 f355spider, Nov 12, 2009
    Ralph, what are the Bosch part numbers for the O2 sensor you bought? There are problems with the Bosch look up guides listing the incorrect O2 sensors for the 5.2 Motronic cars (they list the ones for the 2.7 1995 cars by mistake). (also the 5.2 cars only have one ECU, not two :) )

    The correct Bosch numbers are as follows:

    Pre-cat: 13819


    Post-cat: 13820
     
  6. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
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    #6 eric355, Nov 13, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2009
    On the 5.2, the O2 sensors are not connected to the ground but to a single pin on the Motronic. Loosing this wire to pin 46 and none of the sensor is seen by the ECU.
    You can check that easily by measuring the voltage of the O2 sensors wrt the CHASSIS of the car. On the "cold" points of the O2 sensors, which are normally connected to the pin 46, you should see something around 730mV.
     
  7. RAC911

    RAC911 Karting

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    Ralph Cacace
    #7 RAC911, Nov 13, 2009
    The new sensors procured are: 13309 and 13820 Bosch. Supplier states they are OEM. I will check the wiring.
     
  8. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
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    #8 eric355, Nov 13, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2009
    13309 are NOT the good ones. These sensors are for the 2.7 and are supposed to be connected to the ground (probably also internally grounded). I suspect that your 2 pre-cat sensors (13309) are grounding the cold point of your sensors (connected to pin 46). So probably not a wiring problem, but a problem due to the use of the wrong sensors.
     
  9. 350HPMondial

    350HPMondial F1 Veteran
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    #9 350HPMondial, Nov 13, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  10. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    #10 f355spider, Nov 13, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2009
    As I previously stated, the Bosch look up is WRONG, so your supplier is working off an inaccurate guide.

    Please replace the pre-cat O2 sensors with the correct part and report back. If you don't believe me, search the archives, this problem has come up several times in past threads with other 5.2 motronic owners.
     
  11. jpierce628

    jpierce628 Rookie

    Nov 15, 2009
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    #11 jpierce628, Nov 15, 2009
    My "check engine" light recently went on and after checking the oil and water levels, it remains on when I re-start. The car appears to run fine but I am concerned that there may be something else wrong, or a need to have the shop check it out to re-set it. What all can the "check engine" light refer to? Catalytic converters? Other electrical issues?

    HELP!!
     
  12. RAC911

    RAC911 Karting

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    #12 RAC911, Nov 15, 2009
    I checked with Bosch for a 1996 F355 Spider and here is what they listed:
    Part Number Description Engine Type
    13309 Oxygen Sensor - OE Type - Exact Fit - Upstream Sensor Two required; 4 Wire; Heated; Check / Replace Interval: 60,000 Miles V8 3.5 GAS
    13820 Oxygen Sensor - OE Type - Exact Fit - Downstream Sensor Two required; 4 Wire; Heated; Check / Replace Interval: 100,000 Miles V8 3.5 GAS
    15727 Oxygen Sensor - OE SmartLink - Universal Fit - Upstream Sensor Two required; 4 Wire; Heated; Check / Replace Interval: 60,000 Miles V8 3.5 GAS
    15738 Oxygen Sensor - OE SmartLink - Universal Fit - Downstream Sensor Two required; 4 Wire; Heated; Check / Replace Interval: 100,000 Miles V8 3.5 GAS
    Related Links

    The 13309 is listed along with 13820. There is no listing for 13819. I will contact Bosch for an explanation.
     
  13. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
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    #13 eric355, Nov 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Cole_ve likes this.
  14. RAC911

    RAC911 Karting

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    #14 RAC911, Nov 17, 2009
    The question now is what is the performance difference between the O2 sensor 13309 and 1319 from Bosch. Bosch has not commented on the two sensors as to similarities or differences.
     
  15. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
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    #15 eric355, Nov 17, 2009
    Have you read what Hugh and I wrote? It is not a matter of performance difference between the 2 sensors. The 5.2 CAN NOT work with the sensor you have.
    Try the following: disconnect your 2 pre-cat sensors, erase all the DTC and run the car. I bet the post-cat sensors will be OK now.
     
  16. RAC911

    RAC911 Karting

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    #16 RAC911, Dec 7, 2009
    You guys are terrific. The car responded exactly as you stated. The Check Engine light went out and only 2 codes came up indicating the missing front O2 sensors. My supplier, OxygenSensorsForLess.com is willing to take back the wrong sensors and give full credit.
     
  17. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
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    #17 eric355, Dec 8, 2009
    Great it worked as expected. 2 new sensors of the correct type and all will be OK!
     

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