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Chicago 512BB for sale

Discussion in 'Chicago' started by tifosi12, Apr 2, 2004.

  1. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    46,022
    @ the wheel
    Full Name:
    Andreas
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  3. FerrariFrank1

    FerrariFrank1 F1 Rookie

    Aug 15, 2003
    3,887
    Chicago-Phoenix-L.A.
    Full Name:
    Frank
    No,I have never seen this car. But,Mr.Hooper out in Phoenix,has a Red/Tan '81 308GTSi with 105K or 110K miles,that he's selling in the High Teens....I think it's $18 or $19K....? www.italianauto.com
     
  4. Dave330gtc

    Dave330gtc Formula Junior

    Mar 12, 2002
    601
    NW Indiana
    Full Name:
    David Smith
    A black carbureted Boxer; nice combination! Any idea what the reserve is on the auction?
     
  5. bill365

    bill365 F1 Rookie

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,319
    Chicago area
    Full Name:
    Bill
    Nothing like a carb'd 12, looks good from the pic's but I would get it checked by somebody good. It doesn't seem like the owner/presenter is very forthcoming with info, nothing about the motor, he says that the belts, clutch and interior are in good condition, how about when they were last changed? Nothing about service history... Doesn't mean that it's bad or that he doesn't have the info but you would think that he would say something about it.

    Bill
     
  6. Dave Bendl

    Dave Bendl Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2003
    730
    Chicagoland
    Full Name:
    Dave Bendl
    The 365GT4BB & 512BB is one cool series. If you go to test drive this one Andreas, be sure to bring along a copy of Sammy Hagar's, "Can't Do 55" !!

    One big drawback to this model was the serviceability of the timing belts. A bit more difficult & time consuming than the later Testarossa. The timing belts in a BB, unlike a 308 must be serviced engine out. The same applies for the Testarossa but in the TR, the engine, gearbox, suspension & subframe comes out through the bottom of the car as an assembly the same as a Mondial. The BB doesn't.

    It's still a beautiful model, and one of my 70-80' design favorites

    Dave
     
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  8. Daryl

    Daryl Formula 3

    Nov 10, 2003
    1,003
    Barrington Hills, IL
    Full Name:
    Daryl Adams
    I believe this is probably Kenny Weiland's Boxer. His factory is located in the neighborhood where I used to live in Chicago. and I saw him in that car ALL the time as he drove to and from work. I stopped by his shop one day and we traded rides in each other's Ferraris. I really liked the Boxer, and Ken shared the stories about importing it. It should be mentioned that Ken has a race team, and had his mechanics tending to the Boxer whenever it needed anything. It always looked sinister and sounded great as it howled down Northwest Highway. Anyone who spends much time in Edison Park or Park Ridge over the last 15 years has probably seen it on the move.
     
  9. Dave Bendl

    Dave Bendl Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2003
    730
    Chicagoland
    Full Name:
    Dave Bendl
    How long ago did you see the car Daryl ? Can you comment further on it's condition ?

    Dave
     
  10. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2002
    2,559
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Philip
    Andreas,
    At Gingerman last year, Ray Van Zelst brought his Daytona. he's owned it for 30 odd years and has put 190,000 miles on it. He mentioned he rebuilt the engine at 120,000. Seemed to run like a champ.
    Philip
     
  11. DN35

    DN35 Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Nov 22, 2003
    599
    Illinois
    Full Name:
    D. Norton
    That could be a great snag for someone considering all the inside info we have. :)
     
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  13. spike308

    spike308 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 8, 2003
    3,977
    Austin TX!
    Full Name:
    Mike Z
    I'm pretty sure I saw this car at McCabes restoration shop in Mundeline recently. Skip (McCabe) said the owner drove it ALL the time. I had commented on the odometer of 80K+ and how great that was, when I was corrected that it was 180K...
    Give the guy credit... he is honest about the miles! Who'd lie about that many miles?
     
  14. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    46,022
    @ the wheel
    Full Name:
    Andreas
    I agree because I got a chance to check it out in person. But decide for yourself:

    As Daryl said it is Kenny Weiland's "daily driver". Kenny is a very nice guy and bought the car with low mileage in Italy and did the grey import himself. Drove it ever since and had it regularly maintained at his own shop (he runs a factory that manufacturers racing parts) or at Autosprint and other places depending on the need.

    I'm no expert, but to me it looked like the car was strong mechanically. No weak 2nd gear synchro, no worn out clutch. No wonder: The car has already its sixth clutch. No wonder either: That engine has so much torque, it is unreal. I almost cried when I drove it: Makes my 308 QV feel like a pretzel Honda in comparison. The sound from that 12 cylinder is awesome, the Ansa exhaust helps. In this car I agree there is no need for a radio (although it has one, which was about the only non original piece in it). And the umpf (read torque) of that motor is simply superb. Of course this is all a matter of opinion, but I thought it was a lot more aggressive/potent than a Testarossa I once drove. The TR is very civilized in comparison. This felt like a true racecar, like a real Ferrari (I still love my 308, but I have to say they are worlds apart despite their close relationship).

    The pictures might give you a bit of an idea in what condition the car is in: As I said it is all original, for better or worse. Purists might like that, somebody who else might look at it as a starting point for an improvement project. Of course I'm no mechanic and a serious buyer should have it mechanically checked out, but it looks to me as if the car is more in need of cosmetic improvements.

    So what's the price? Well the reserve is set at 50k. Since I've been looking at 512 BB and BBi for my friend who is in the market I have seen quite a few over the last 12 months and can compare prices and their appearance. Depending how far somebody wants to go with the restauration, this could be a very good deal. You have a pure sports car at 50k and probably another 10k will make it look really nice. Although the paint job is showing its age as well, I'd leave that alone and focus on the leather inside and some bits and pieces in the front trunk. Speaking of: Although not in the picture Kenny says he has the original toolkit.

    PS: Daryl, sorry to tell you, but he didn't remember your key swap.
     
  15. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    46,022
    @ the wheel
    Full Name:
    Andreas
    Here a few more shots:

    I don't think my friend will go for this one as he is looking for a concours car. But somebody who enjoys his Ferrari for its driving capability should get this one. To be honest, if I wouldn't have my 308 already, I'd pick this one up in a heartbeat (ok, I don't have a wide enough parking space either).

    Forza's buyers guide puts it nicely: From all the Ferrari supercars (Daytona, 512BB, 288 GTO, F40, F50, Enzo) of recent history, only one is a five figure car. Couldn't agree more with that statement. Or to put it differently: I'm a sucker for wheel arches that get exposed when you lift the hood. This is the only Ferrari I could afford, that does that trick (LM, P4, 512, F40, F50, Enzo).
     
  16. Dave Bendl

    Dave Bendl Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2003
    730
    Chicagoland
    Full Name:
    Dave Bendl
    Nice pics and write up Andreas. I'd agree with Spike308 about his honesty regarding mileage.
    This one in my opinion would be a tough call at the $50k reserve.
    Seems cheap until to really dig into things after you buy it.
    Dave
     
  17. Daryl

    Daryl Formula 3

    Nov 10, 2003
    1,003
    Barrington Hills, IL
    Full Name:
    Daryl Adams
    Andreas hit it right on the nose. Ken drove the car ALOT but put much effort into keeping it presentable. I recall the leather being a little tired, but considering the use the car got I thought it looked good. John D'Avola at Autosprint is a fine tech, so I'd bet the car is strong mechanically. Oh by the way, Andreas, Ken and I didn't swap keys, we gave each other rides. I took Ken out first in my 308GT4 and he was politely complimentary about it. Imagine how I felt when we went out in the Boxer and he pinned me back in my seat as we wailed down Devon Avenue. What was it Wayne and Garth said, "I'm not worthy!!" Sheeesh.
     
  18. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    46,022
    @ the wheel
    Full Name:
    Andreas
    The proverbial pinning back into the seat actually best describes the visceral experience this car gives you. While a 308 gives you a gentle push, this thing really nails you into the seat. I didn't rev it high (for one it isn't mine and two I was within the city), but just accelerating to about 4,000 put your back squarely into the leather seats. Impressive.

    As far as your cars go Daryl, you could still easily impress me with either of those.

    PS: Wayne's World 1 is one of my all time favourite movies. Some parts of it were shot in the building next to mine, where I once used to live.
     
  19. bill365

    bill365 F1 Rookie

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,319
    Chicago area
    Full Name:
    Bill
    Andreas,
    On the list of cars w/naked wheel arches, you left out the 365BB, which is rarer, lighter and faster than the 512BB. Just another possibility for your future considerations.

    Bill
     
  20. bill365

    bill365 F1 Rookie

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,319
    Chicago area
    Full Name:
    Bill
    As an added note: All 365BB and 512BB models (except BBI), as far as I know were "gray market" cars.

    Bill
     
  21. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    46,022
    @ the wheel
    Full Name:
    Andreas
    True. Although in my mind I count that one to the 512 BB(i) family. Your statement about the grey imports is also true of course.

    As far as the exposed wheels go, there is also the Lancia Stratos in the line up. Yet another one in the six figure range.
    :(
     
  22. Dave Bendl

    Dave Bendl Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2003
    730
    Chicagoland
    Full Name:
    Dave Bendl
    It would be interesting to know what type of engine & gearbox lubes & how frequent the fluids were changed over the course of this cars service history.

    With the accumulated mileage this car has without a major overhaul, the use of dino vs synthetic oil controversy in older street driven Ferraris could finally be settled using this car as a case history.

    Dave
     
  23. FerrariFrank1

    FerrariFrank1 F1 Rookie

    Aug 15, 2003
    3,887
    Chicago-Phoenix-L.A.
    Full Name:
    Frank
    I certainly must agree with everyone here. Those 512BB's,and the "Rarer"365BB's.Certainly are cool cars. I never knew that there were the 2 of them until a few years ago when I bought a Ferrari Book.
     
  24. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    46,022
    @ the wheel
    Full Name:
    Andreas
    Frank, you need to get your son's 1/18 Ferrari collection off the ground. Just to keep yourself educated.
    :)

    There are beautiful 1/18 365 and 512BBi models avail from Kyosho.
     
  25. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Franklin E. Parker
    The truth is on a Boxer you can change the timing belts, rebuild the water pump and replace the tensioner bearings by removing the fuel and oil tanks. However, you cannot get the tool to degree the cams in the tight space after that work is done. I have heard of people who will lock the cams down and not redegree them after the service.
     
  26. FerrariFrank1

    FerrariFrank1 F1 Rookie

    Aug 15, 2003
    3,887
    Chicago-Phoenix-L.A.
    Full Name:
    Frank

    HeeHee!! No Doubt!! I bought an "All about Ferrari" book several years ago. And,It progresses up throught the Years. When it got to the 365BB,I thought that they must've put in the wrong picture by accident...(No,Not really) "Thats a 512Berlinetta Boxer!!"

    I never knew before then that the 365BB existed. Only the 512BB.

    Yes,we are working on Junior's 1:18 scale collection...I am running out of room...Either I need to add on or move to a bigger place. Garage,too.:)
     
  27. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    46,022
    @ the wheel
    Full Name:
    Andreas
    Actually I'm kinda serious about this. 1/18 models give you so much details (if made by the right company) that you can learn alot from them. Sometimes I pick two out of the collection and compare them and learn a few things. Point in case if you compare a 365 with a 512 from the front there is not much difference (if any). But you flip the model around and look at them from the back and it becomes blatanly obvious.

    Do the same exercise with a 550 vs 575 or a TR vs a 512M and you'll get the idea.
     
  28. FerrariFrank1

    FerrariFrank1 F1 Rookie

    Aug 15, 2003
    3,887
    Chicago-Phoenix-L.A.
    Full Name:
    Frank
    Yes,I agree. The 365 has 3 tailliights,and the Rear end is a tad shorter.

    I have a couple Videos that I took at the various Ferrari Shows,and at Continental,while attending their Open House last year. You can really see a difference in the Rear ends of the Testarossa's/512TR's/and 512M's.

    Definitely some changes as they progress. But,I am having a Hard time locating alot of the assorted Ferrari cars in 1:18 scale. I really don't have the time,(or patience) to toy around with EBay. Besides...I will be concentrating on adding 1:1 scale car(s). As Junior gets older,he can search for the little ones. We just buy 'em as we see 'em.
     

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