Cigar Smoking Room Ventilation | FerrariChat

Cigar Smoking Room Ventilation

Discussion in 'Drink, Smoke, and Fine Dining' started by true, Jul 31, 2005.

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  1. true

    true Karting

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    #1 true, Jul 31, 2005
    Dear Fellow F-Chatters;

    I know there are quite a few smokers on this forum (Darth550, Tyler, Whart, etc..), so I thought I might have some luck regarding smoking room ventilation configurations. I've done quite a few searches, on cigar forums, and through the Internet; but can't seem to find any true 'solid' data regarding requirements of residential cigar smoking room. I have seen people use multiple bathroom fans to vent (high power Panasonic), ozone based portable systems (Csonka), but I'm looking for a fully integrated air ventilation system, including air conditioning and heating.

    Some information:

    The smoking room will be 16' x 16' x 9' (ceiling), and will be an indoor/outdoor addition to a home. (70% windows, and on a concrete slab) I have already ruled out 'tapping' the existing furnace/ac, so it will have fresh units and duct work installed. The obvious answer is to call a HVAC guy, but I have contacted 3, and none really _know_, or have a confident solution. Most 'think' 500 CFM exhaust fan might exchange enough air to not get hit back in the face with smoke.

    I want to be able to maintain the temperature of the room regardless of summer/winter, (Chicago) and smoke in it comfortably no matter the outdoor condition. (short of extremes) I am pretty sure I will be installing a small furnace, and a small central air conditioner, along with a separate 'exhaust' (to outside) fan for use when smoking. At this point, my heating or cooling requirements have to be able to replenish the volume of the exhausted air. My problem is that I simply do not have any idea as to how much CFM exhaust I really need to move. I have been in a few properly ventilated commercial grade smoking rooms, and am shooting for the smoke to raise pretty much right out of my mouth, directly to the exhaust fan. Nothing is worse than getting hit with a face full of smoke.

    Any information from a familiar consumer, HVAC or ventilation expert would be great!!

    Thanks, Nick

    EDIT: I already called Gentry...he was fresh out of smoking room blueprints... :)
     
  2. PeterS

    PeterS Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 PeterS, Jul 31, 2005
    I'll follow this thread, as I smoke in my office. I sure sould like to find a roof-mount system to suck out the smoke, but not all of the heat or cool air from my home AC. At present, I keep my ashtray under a small exhaust fan at the window.
     
  3. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 World Champ

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    #3 Sfumato, Jul 31, 2005
  4. Tyler

    Tyler F1 Rookie

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    #4 Tyler, Aug 3, 2005
    Actually I think positive pressure ventilation is what he is looking for, like in a surgical suite. I'm assuming the goal is to keep air flowing out of the room.

    I'll check back in tomorrow when I'm not under the influence. :)
     
  5. Roryferrari

    Roryferrari Formula Junior

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    #5 Roryferrari, Aug 3, 2005
    Let me see what I can find. I'm in the refrigeration end of things, however I have a lot of contacts. Clean rooms etc.
     
  6. darth550

    darth550 Six Time F1 World Champ
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    #6 darth550, Aug 4, 2005
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  7. jimpo1

    jimpo1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #7 jimpo1, Aug 4, 2005
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    This is a picture of my wine cellar/smoking room from a few years ago. If you'll notice in the upper corner of the room, I have a 90CFM exhaust fan vented to the outside. I can smoke my lungs out and not a scent enters the house. If I could only figure out how to install a toilet, I'd never have to leave!
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  8. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
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    #8 whart, Aug 4, 2005
    Believe it or not, i used to use one of those 'cult' ozone generators offered by the folks at Living Air. They worked way better than any other air filter i've ever used. The only thing i can add is that the restaurant Taillivent in Paris seemed to have the best air filtration system i've ever experienced. We arrived for dinner one night adjacent to a table of 4 men who were just beginning cognac and cigars. While i am a smoker, i don't like smoke when i am eating. Within a few seconds of their lighting up (3 or 4 of them fired up cigars), all the odor instantly vanished. I have no idea what system they use, but if you call the restaurant, and speak fluent french, they might tell you....
     
  9. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #9 Etcetera, Aug 4, 2005
    I used one over the last winter to rid a friend's house of smoke odor...it too was a living air unit. It removed 100% of that awful rank odor, but left behind kind of an odd smell that thankfully went away in a few days. Somebody smoked so much in this one room that the walls and the ceilings were discolored.

    Beyond that, DO NOT be in the same room as a unit that is generating ozone...ozone is very bad for the lungs.
     
  10. true

    true Karting

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    #10 true, Aug 27, 2005
    Thank you everyone for your reply. While I would agree the Ozone generating air 'filters' can remove the odor, I'm mostly interested in a true ventilation system. After calling a few more HVAC companies in my area, I have all but given up on them. When I asked if anyone had designed a system that allows for a closed loop smoking room, I continue to receive responses such as: ”a what”, or “why would you do that”, or “we could _probably_ do that…” Not what I was looking to hear.

    The architect has signed off on the building plan for the addition, but we have still not settled the ventilation issue.

    I have gone over enough heating and cooling requirement formulas on the net to probably have a good idea what is needed, but it's pretty unsettling that I can't find anyone personally who knows exactly what I need,.

    Current thoughts: I’m thinking 100,000 BTU furnace, a 2.0 Ton central AC, with a 1250 CFM exhaust fan. If anyone can talk me out of it, please feel free. 

    Any additional opinions or comments will be great. My father and I will be building this project from start to finish, so I will update this thread with our progress. It will most likely take many months….

    Thanks again,

    Nick
     
  11. Dopplemax

    Dopplemax Formula 3

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    #11 Dopplemax, Aug 30, 2005
    What you need to do is get a unit that either has an integral energy recovery system, or have two systems, one for comfort control and one for exhaust/energy recovery. RenewAire is one manufacturer, I could dig up a few more for you. We have designed systems with them for both smoking as well as garage / vehicle storage. The air to air heat exchanger recovers as much of the energy as possible that was put into conditioning the space and gives you a balancing / pressurization capability to keep the room negative to the adjacent areas but without being so negative that you end up with unintended airflow from places you didn't expect, plus you get fresh air introduced to dilute residual odors. PM me if you want more. DMAX
     
  12. true

    true Karting

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    #12 true, Sep 20, 2005
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  13. Dino Martini

    Dino Martini F1 Rookie

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    #13 Dino Martini, Sep 20, 2005
    wow! that is a nice house!
     
  14. Tyler

    Tyler F1 Rookie

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    #14 Tyler, Sep 21, 2005
    Nick

    Looks like quite a project! I'm excited to see what solution you settle on. Lots of people have done walk-in humidors in their houses but I don't really know anyone who has taken the ventilation aspect to task as you have. Seems you may be a pioneer in this respect. Looking forward to updates and pics as the process continues.
     
  15. Ronbo

    Ronbo Formula Junior

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    #15 Ronbo, Sep 21, 2005
    Photographic darkrooms are recommended to have sufficient ventilation to provide 10-12 changes of air per hour. Here is a formula I found on the Web (can't vouch for it) for calculating fan capacity for 10 changes/hr:

    "The volume of air must be sufficient to cycle the air in the darkroom at least 10 times per hour. To calculate this number, multiply the room dimensions and divide by 6 (a 4' by 6' by 8' room is 192 divided by 6 is 32 cubic feet per minute (cfm). When buying a fan, get one that does at least that many cfm."

    Applying that formula to your space, you should be looking at a fan that does about 400 CFM (16 x 16 x 9/6 = 384).

    Hope this helps.
     
  16. true

    true Karting

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    #16 true, Nov 10, 2007
    Updating this thread about 2 years later.....

    The cigar smoking "lounge" has been completed. I'm going to develop a webpage that contains much more detail on the things I've learned, research, tested, etc.. in designing this room. For now, I'll post some images of the progress until now.
     
  17. true

    true Karting

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    #17 true, Nov 10, 2007
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  18. true

    true Karting

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    #18 true, Nov 10, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    In this set:

    We routed as much possible conduit as we could get away with. Seems you can never have enough.

    Notice the platform with all of the HVAC that has been roughed in.

    We insulated beneth the floor and the picture is before getting ready to install the hardwood flooring

    Also, there is a deck on top of this room. We used a really nice rubber roof compound as the roofing component.
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  19. true

    true Karting

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    #19 true, Nov 10, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    In this set:

    The outside pretty much finished minus some details. (Notice the 3 vents which are the fresh air exists. If you look on the bottom right, that is the fresh air inlet)

    The flooring (5" Walnut) is starting to go down.

    Picture 3 is where the cigar smoking ventilation starts getting fancy. In the ceiling we installed 3 900CFM outside fresh-air ventilation units. Also, there is a 'closed-loop' electronic air cleared w/ charcoal filters installed in the ceiling.

    Lastly, a touch screen thermostat to run the devices. Again, this is 100% seperate from the house controls and just for this room.
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  20. true

    true Karting

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    #20 true, Nov 10, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    In this set:

    The flooring has been completed.

    You can see how we finished off covering up the room's enclosed HVAC.

    Also, I've installed a commercial grade soda fountain for beverages. Picture 3 has it is sitting on the ground getting ready to be setup. (This will be a separate write-up -- very cool project)

    Last in the set, my hand-made ashtray from Nicaragua. (I have two of them)
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  21. true

    true Karting

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    #21 true, Nov 10, 2007
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  22. true

    true Karting

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    #22 true, Nov 10, 2007
    Anybody who is in the Chicago area who smokes; feel free to contact me if you'd like to share a cigar!
     
  23. msquared

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    #23 msquared, Nov 10, 2007
    wow. that came off rather well!
     
  24. Tyler

    Tyler F1 Rookie

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    #24 Tyler, Nov 12, 2007
    Fantastic! Thanks for sharing. How is the ventilation?
     
  25. wingfeather

    wingfeather F1 Rookie

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    #25 wingfeather, Nov 12, 2007
    Beautiful! And a soda fountain, too?! You are my hero :) Too bad it's quite a drive or I'd bring over some port and cigars as peace offerings :)
     
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