CIS to EFI converter

The b*stards!

It looks like the loom and programing cable add $168.26 & $120 respectively and probably another $100 for connectors to terminate the harness....not to bad I guess for a really nice ECU.

Now if I can just get it past the wife.....

BTW, Anybody interested in a good deal on a haltech E11V1 with issues before it goes on ebay? The main trigger works perfectly reading the 308 OEM crank trigger, but I've had trouble with finding a home signal it really likes. It may work fine in twin distributor mode using both OEM triggers, I don't know. I do know the original problem with the v1 was that it didn't work right with a motronics type trigger, but I don't know if that's all or just the ones with hall effect pickups....the haltech hall effect doesn't work right at all. And the O2 sensor has never worked right.

 

Fred2, the anal thing is very real. I like originality but I like the thing to work right too. I think most ferrari buyers will deduct dollars for the mod even though its a good move. Its probably one of those improvements you make for yourself and say to hell with prospective buyers. If you keep the stuff you took off and didnt do anything stupid and permanant then it might help. If I have problems with mine on the regular basis then I will change it over to electronic - properly.

 

What is the URL of the Japanese website?
EDIT: ah just seen it in your later post.

 

What version were you reading about?
Mega Squirt 2 Version 3.0 does everything that I can see, and for only $250 for the basic kit!
5 requires an added component and 12 might, but I'm a little unsure.

1: Squirt your electronic injectors?
DONE!

2: Control your distributor?
DONE!

3: Control your coil packs as you are not using a distributor?
DONE!

4: Use any injector (high or low impedance)
DONE!

5: You want the ability to use a wide band O2 sensor?
DONE!

6: Use an idle solenoid?
DONE!

7: Control turbo boost?
DONE!

8: Use a knock sensor?
DONE!

9:Water injection with or without a turbo?
DONE!

10: Have 2 fuel maps so if you want, you can switch to another fuel like Ethanol or Methanol?
DONE!

11: Program the unit in YOUR garage rather than pay someone else big $$$ to do it for you?
DONE!

12: There is even talk of using a factory Flexible Fuel Vehicle sensor in the fuel rail so it will adjust up to E85 like a regular FFV!

Good GOD man, what more would you need to control an engine?

 

Mega Squirt 2 Version 3.0

multifire only, squentail is not an option. Tha't nomally fine for naturally aspiated engine, but with high hp/high boost it leads to a pretty hard time controling idle.

Also there is way inadaquate resolution in the maps. That leads to hesitation, poor throttle response and flat spots in the hp curve.

2 problems here. 308/328 engine have 2 distributors and the MS can not deal with this, you'd need to run 2 untis. the second problem is the mapping resolution again.

Only if there is a ford contoler and 36-1 trigger fitted.

yeap

That was still in testing last month, is it released now?

An idle solenoind is pretty crude. an IAC or BAC is really the prefered only to control idle and the MS doesn't do a good job with either.

Again like the multi-coil it will control some OEM systems, but you are limited.

yeap...but again you have pretty limited control over how it reacts the signal.

]qoute]
9:Water injection with or without a turbo?
DONE![/qoute]
limited control again.

..and niether has adequate resolution.

I haven't played with their software, so I can't really comment other than to say that no aftermarket ECU requires you to pay a tuner. The few I've used were all quite straight forward.

interesting, but I'm not sure how useful.

Faster processor, more resolution in the maps, more options on set-up and sensors, more options to control the auxiliaries, more programmable channels.

Don’t get me wrong, a MS will run the engine, but it is not on par with electromotive or haltech and it’s a long way from a motec. You get what you pay for.

There is also the support issue. It’s a lot like the linux problem….great program for people who know how to program, but pretty much useless for those of us who need plug and play. MS is an open code platform and the people who really love it are programmers because they can do whatever they want (as long as they don’t want good resolution in the maps). If all you want to do is run you engine, preferably with the sensors you already have, MS comes up a bit shy.

 

The consensus I have seen on the headers is that they are of a sound design, tuned to match the stock cams, but are let down by really poor port matching at the head. I've seen several folks recommend re-working where the header bolts to the head - the durable1 site talks about it but there are several.

Everyone seems to like the ceramic coating thing.

One thing I have likewise wondered is if going to a true dual system like earlier models would be any advantage on the single cat US 3.2. The big deal about a flat crankshaft V-8 is exhaust tuning advantages because of equal pulse timing on each side. The Euro 3.2 still uses the earlier qv dual system.
any ideas anyone?

 

The short answer is, you’re right, the exhaust should be bigger if you add boost. The longer answer is that there is a pressure vs flow rate curve and increasing the pressure will increase the flow rate. What happens is the cylinder pressure will build up until the exhaust will flow enough. But because the cylinder pressure is up, it takes more intake manifold (boost) pressure to force the air in. Running a freer flowing exhaust will both increase hp and lower boost pressure. From what I understand turbo engines are kind of sensitive to restrictions after the turbine, with superchargers it’s just the wasted energy with the pressure vs flow.

I am using the stock headers and was using the stock muffler (I recently switched to a borla I got used). Switching to larger tube headers and big free flowing muffler on my engine would probably add about 20-30 hp, but would cost a lot of money and probably also sap some of the low end torque, so I haven’t done it….I might though now that the stupid ZO6 vette and viper have almost as much hp as I do.

 

I was talking to my EFI guy today and he mentioned he’s got new fuel injectors that are about ¾” shorter than the standard one. He supposed to be sending me a drawing of them. The point is that it may now be possible to get a fuel rail under the throttle body when doing the EFI conversion. When I get it I’ll post it.

The other piece of info I got, which I already suspected, is that haltech is now using the same processor that motec uses…I noticed the data logging rates are the same for both companies the other day by chance and it occurred to me that about the only way that is possible is if the processors are the same. He said to look for them to be adding cool features as firmware upgrades. The one they just added is wideband O2 closed loop control is standard, I thing motec charges an extra $600 for the upgrade…which is just a password to let you access it in the software, everything required is already built into the unit, you just can use it. The same is true for traction control, throttle by wire, extra data log memory, ect, ect…b*stards.

 

Not to totally hijack the thread, but something I looked at would be going to two 4 throat slide valve pressure carb/injection used on many motorcycle upgrades. The manifold would be simple to machine with just a base plate and short nub intake pipes as the unit connects with hoseclamps. To me it looks similar to an Alfa 33. Parts and support are readily available - simple and very effective way to increase flow even over Webers; the only real challenge would be the linkage.

Anyone ever used these on a bike?

 

I have been looking into this since I bought my car 2 years ago. I finally bought some motorcycle ITB on Ebay for 275 bucks for 8. 1999 Suzuki 750 GSXR. I think they are 38 mm but I am not sure. 3 5/8" in height.
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Here is Honda TB 954 for some tuner car. You get the idea though. You can see from this pics the problem with newer motorcycle TB(not modular). The distance between center bore to center bore is roughly 3 1/4" and you actually need abouy 3 5/8" between throttle bores for the 308. I still think these could be made to work by increasing the distance between the 2 throttle bodies. You can see from the pic that the 2 runners on the far outside have a bit of angle compared to the inside runners. Maybe some one else could give there thought on this setup. Well, I keep getting an Ivalid File response with the upload for the picture. Anyone care to help me out here?

 

Well it seems that all of my pics from the web of ITB setups for a conversion of motorcycle to cars is an INVALID FILE. Any ideas?

 

Does anyone have a CIS intake manifold and TB they want to lend/give/sell to me cheap?

I think an EFI conversion could be done for under 1K, but need a manifold to butcher to confirm this.

I really should go out and buy an 81 308 that is in bad condition, but my wife would kill me. Of course, if I painted it pink and put Hello Kitty on it.......

Dave

 

Sent pics to Tillman so hopefully he can get them posted

Bill

 

I used and loved the flatslide carb...so much so that I fitted a set to a 911 engine with outstanding results. You're right the maifold is pretty straight forward to make... I had a request to think about a design for a QV engine, which is now basically done, so if anyone wants one, let me know, I'm thinking a pair of monifolds from billet is a $1200-$1500 job.

 

Thanks Tillman,

1. Pic is of the manifold for the Suzuki TB in pic 2. The great thing about these TB is the fact that you can space the TB to any size that you need.

2. Suzuki 2002 (I think) GSXR 1000 TB on the manifold. Notice that the TB have 2 places for the butter fly. In this pic the top butterfly's where removed. Notice the spacers inbetween the TB.

3 & 4. Pic is of 2003 or 04 Honda 954 TB. Available on Ebay all the time for about 200 bucks. I think this set up was for a Hinda civic. You can see that these have less flexability than the Older Suzuki's but a much nicer package in my opinion. The distance between the throttle body bores center to center is 3 1/4" . You can increase the distance between the pair of throttle bodies though. The 308 center to center os roughly 3 5/8"

5. Pic is of another Honda Civic intake and looks alot like what we would need in over all height to make this set up work for a 308

Hope all of this helps

Bill

 

This is pretty cool.
Mark - which flatside carb worked well verically in the 911?
Any other brands?

 

This is very cool! LOL

I just got back from my local Honda motorcycle dealer and the 1000 CBR TB are 44 mm. He did not have a measurement between the bores. Maybe some one can find that info.

 

Just to state the obvious, if folks are really interested in this would suggest they be reading the throttle body/plenum thread now ongoing in this section.

I'm learning a lot.

 

I use FZR1000, like ’89 if I recall. They were 38mm CV flatslide, I taper-bored them and did a bit of work on the butterfly (the CV slide was flatslide, but a butterfly still controlled everything), I think the final flow # thought the head/manifold/carb was 142 cfm@10 in water….but they were a bit small for what I was doing, the head/manifold flowed 160 or 165 so the carb did end up a restriction…so it only make about 350 hp at 7800 instead of the 400 at 8500 I wanted…but still pretty good. That was a 2.8 6 cyl, on a 3 liter 8 with milder cams the carb size would be about perfect.

There was an aftermarket version (mukuni) that was a true flatslide, but they were like $1500 a set and at that price I could have EFI. I think I paided $80 or $100 per set of 4 for the carbs....I had more money in jets doing the tuning than the carbs as I recall.

 

If you go with these any of these different throttle bodies that run between 36 and 44mm how are you going to narrow the venturi's? I have found (Russ is aware) that 36mm and up is to great a diameter for the 308....even with big cams and upped compression.

Wouldn't it be better to use something like these weber throttle bodies?

They come in a DCNF configuration: http://www.redlineweber.com/SEMA2002/flyers/Throttle_body.htm
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