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Citroen hydraulics - Khamsin, Bora, early Merak, late Indy

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by thecarnut, Jan 11, 2009.

  1. Must see the interview we did with Piero Ferrari in Maranello! https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/news/297
  1. Villard

    Villard Rookie

    Nov 19, 2013
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    Hi all,

    I'm looking for the thread dimensions of the plug attaching the hydraulic pipe to the light hydraulic cylinder : they are 2 per cylinder.
    Is it Metric or BSP thread and what size ?
    any idea of a source of such plug ?

    thanks in advance,
     
  2. helmut1014

    helmut1014 Rookie

    May 11, 2008
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    3/8-24 UNF

    Helmut
     
  3. Villard

    Villard Rookie

    Nov 19, 2013
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    Hi Helmut,

    Thanks for your quick response

    cheers
     
  4. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2012
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    Art
    I just called the number above and spoke with Will in SLC. He is firmly and definitely open for business.

    He suggested he may have been away on vacation and maybe his answering machine was full or didn't pick up back in February, March whatever.

    Bottom line: "Reports of his demise are premature".

    Best of luck with your hydraulics.
    - Art
     
  5. peggy.spiers@yahoo.com

    Dec 16, 2015
    3
    Hi all,
    I am looking for a Master Brake Cylinder for a '73 Maserati Indy with Citroen brake system. I have a part # of DM453.89.7. This project has turned into a real booger simply because I can't find parts. Any help?
     
  6. AM1220552

    AM1220552 Karting

    May 25, 2012
    132
  7. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2012
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    Art

    Bob,
    I've been aware of this, but never performed a "drill" on the operation. Can you elaborate any more? It's worth clarifying as much as possible. I'll scrutinize the 'Parts Manual' to identify the proper junction box you speak of. I assume this isolates the critical braking function. Does one screw the screw inwards to isolate the brake circuit?

    Thanks,
    - Art
     
  8. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Honestly Art? I don't remember.

    Maserati Bora - Brakingn system: Page 024 | Order Online Eurospares

    #40.

    If you're going to disturb it I'd be prepared to replace any seal involved. I never needed to use it under emergency conditions. I imagine there's a hard seat sealing surface and a rubber seal for the shaft?

    I'd ask Dave and see if he knows. I'll ask my fried who used to own one as well. If you're an MIE member they might know too. I think the shaft has a lock nut no?

    Let us know what you find out.
     
  9. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3
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    #109 thecarnut, Nov 29, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This is what the cut off valve looks like on a Khamsin. On a Bora you will find a similar junction box with the cut off valve near the brake accumulators.

    You release the lock nut and then screw in the tiny bolt to shut off the flow to the accessories. The bolt looks very fragile and it appears it could easily snap.

    Ivan
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  10. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Ivan,

    Have you ever tried it?
     
  11. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3
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    #111 thecarnut, Nov 29, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Yes, and it worked. Personally I would have designed this very differently as this design is useless in an emergency. A miniature ball valve would have been a better choice.

    Ivan
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  12. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Oh well on that topic the list is quite long ... LOL :D

    But the original tool kit should be able to work on that unless the bolt is frozen and then snaps off! :eek:

    Could you tell how the threads are sealed?
     
  13. eogorman

    eogorman Formula Junior

    May 10, 2005
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    I do not believe the threads are sealed. When I used mine it leaked a lot of fluid until the valve was closed or completely open against the stop.
     
  14. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Yeah Gene, last night will NOT SLEEPING I imagined it as having a threaded stem with a double faced bulb on the end that seals against two faces in side that bore either all the way open or closed.

    Bob S.
     
  15. richjar

    richjar Karting

    Oct 20, 2009
    244
    The comments on the cut off junction was interesting, I never knew what the junction box was for. I thought it could have been an adjusting screw or something. But when the systems are all working well and I have a friendly specialist, I leave well alone...
     
  16. highwaybora

    highwaybora Karting

    Jun 18, 2013
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    SoCal
    Functionally so. All in or out only, leaks everywhere between.. under pressure. In my experience. LOVE the idea of a Ball-valve... but all purists likely object. 2750 lb/sq.in. like Scuba. Why? CITROEN.

    As to all else in aux system, all dash-switches and slave piston-effectuators, does not MIE offer full solution?? For Bora, anyway. No indication if any variances between model years, serial #s, other. Maybe not cheap, but... all other solutions appear partial only, or with other major risks.

    I have aversion to shipping out of country, if possible to avoid.

    --NE
    ps--please advise if any misconceptions stated, if so need full objective detailed tested facts. Thx!!
     
  17. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks for confirming this. I never had such a failure to use it, at least that I can remember.

    I'm with you when it comes to shipping these bits half way around the world.

    Have you tried calling Dave Burnham?

    Dave Burnham Citroën - Contact Us
     
  18. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3
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    I received an e-mail from a Mercedes 600 parts rebuilder that is interested in servicing the Bosch hydraulic parts used on Maseratis. Apparently he has experience rebuilding the same (or very similar) parts for the MB 600 series cars.

    I have not used his services nor have a financial interest. If someone decides to try him out please report back your experience. This is his contact information:

    Martin Werminghausen
    Engineer
    141 South Great Road, Lincoln, MA 01773, USA
    857-265-6283
    600AirSuspension

    Ivan
     
  19. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks Ivan.

    Every little bit helps.
     
  20. richjar

    richjar Karting

    Oct 20, 2009
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    For those of us that are based in the UK, this is the specialist I use, and has serviced the complete system on my Khamsin. A very knowledge and helpful guy
    Citroen Classics - DS, 2CV
     
  21. AMLC

    AMLC Formula Junior

    Apr 4, 2009
    271
    Did you see this Hagerty Seminar from Jan 19 2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XBs4rcDRdg

    From about 35:20 they talk about the Maserati Bora and Wayne Carini is very positive.
    But then for some reason he tells the audience that the Bora has hydraulic suspension and he is not corrected by the other panel members (who are "the guys who know" according to Hagerty). I think they also say it has hydraulic windows.

    If you ask me this audience is misinformed about the Bora in this Hagerty seminar. I'm afraid that with experts talking like this the people in the US (with the exception of real Maserati experts) will never understand these cars.
     
  22. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Rookie

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    #122 Nembo1777, May 6, 2017
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
    Hello AMLC,

    That is appalling, I haven't time to watch it yet but trust your judgment. This is just like when a Christie's catalog description for the Khamsin spyder at their last car sale in France 10 years ago also said a Khamsin had hydraulic suspension...I will email this Carini via this contact page I found

    Contact F-40 Motorsports in Portland, CT, 06480

    and then also call him to encourage him to actually correct the mistake. I don't know about you but if I buy a car book, or any other book, no matter how expensive and glossy if it has a mistake I correct it on the page, with a ball point pen, its function is to be a correct data/history source not to be a pretty thing on the coffee table for people who don't actually ever read the thing. Likewise a show like his should be about informing and educating with all due prior research done not spreading wrong information, therefore any error should duly be corrected with a mention in the next show and an edit in the video which has the error.

    Of course there are more important things in this world, this does not feed the hungry etc etc but when you do a show like that it should be done properly.

    Best regards,

    Marc
     
  23. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #123 staatsof, May 6, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Wayne knows very little about these cars. Years back he tried to sell a very nice late, red, bumpers converted car at a Mecum auction of all places ... no sale. Let's face it, even though it's a terrific and very handsome car it's also an obscure one. At least it's worth a lot more than the $35K top value of just a few years ago. Adjusted for inflation since 1987 when I bought they've about tripled if the last 3 years pricing holds. So that's not so bad. But the huge run up to $100K+ in 1989/90 was met with a precipitous clunk to $30K by 1991. It wasn't just the Bora that did that though ...
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  24. AMLC

    AMLC Formula Junior

    Apr 4, 2009
    271
    To be sure I looked at it again and he reallly says it, even repeats it, and one of the other guys also repeats it.

    Would be nice if this could be corrected.

    Í'm not thinking about values right away but let's start with getting the facts right first. Otherwise what's the use of seminars like this?

    By the way I do not write in my books :)
     
  25. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    290
    True.

    Just wrote to Wayne also requesting a correction.

    Regards.
     

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