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Citroen hydraulics - Khamsin, Bora, early Merak, late Indy

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by thecarnut, Jan 11, 2009.

  1. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
    1,058
    Harriman, TN USA
    Full Name:
    Michael Demyanovich
    Hello Villard...

    Chinese Bosch look-a-like replicas?? I have not heard of this.
    Can you please post pictures, websites where they may be obtained,
    and prices?

    I have been reading this thread, and as a Khamsin owner am very interested.
    There seems to be a lot of knowledge. But it would be great to post
    manufacturers, models, part numbers, etc of what is being used... This would
    help us all and be part of a record.. If you reconditioned these cylinders, please
    post pictures and descriptions of your procedures.. As mentioned, I am very
    interested, and I bet there are even more owners who are interested!

    Thanks...

    Mike
     
  2. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 13, 2005
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    Bob
    OK try it out then. If you're seeing the upload page then it should work just fine.
     
  3. highwaybora

    highwaybora Karting

    Jun 18, 2013
    117
    SoCal
    Bob-- Thanks for once again referencing this issue! Though you'd referenced it before, I'd concentrated on the braking at the wheels more and overlooked requiring that attention and fix on these details (though working directly in that area). These details as above are more explicit I think somehow (or I'm paying better attention) than details given earlier. So, now will go back and make certain. As well, in the area, needing to double check insulation (titanium wrap) around the new headers (a la Jacques), especially near critical subsystems (already done passing near/under CV boots). As well, likely time for some suspension rubber bits replacements in the area.

    I always appreciate your deep experience and insights as you share such details. The greater the detail the more helpful it is. Owing to space factors my Bora is the only remaining exotic here, so all the more important. Though I'd been originally seeking a Ghibli, I've owned this Bora since 1986 and the more I drive it and delve into things, the more I find in it that is preferable (by far, to me). Tips by participating fellow owners such as yourself greatly enhance that. Journalists don't get enough seat/miles time in to fully appreciate its wide-ranging capabilities, performance, and comforts. Also, it hasn't left me road-stranded like many other hobby cars can and do (well, save for that one waterpump incident nearing Monterey in 2000).
    Thanks.
    --NE
     
  4. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Bob
    I just throw that particular alert out here once in awhile because should it fail while operating the car OMG! :eek: I don't know that it ever has?

    I've gotten stuck twice in my Bora. Both times it was blocks from my house and once it was 1 block away and I still had to have it flat bedded! As you can imagine it was due to something I had done and on the test drive.

    Good to hear from another long term owner who's enjoyed their car. There aren't many who go back that far, you predate me!
     
  5. Villard

    Villard Rookie

    Nov 19, 2013
    25
    FRANCE
    Full Name:
    VILLARD
    Hi all. i'll try to answer the question
    I've identified 3 sources of Bosch replacement hydraulic cylinders :
    - Maurice ones in NZ : Nice chaps and good reputation but i've never seen one so far
    - Italian cottage business you can find on a well known auction web site
    - French distributor of Maserati parts, European equivalent of MIE but smaller : parts looks good, seals replaceable, price about 500$ for 2 units, good may be for the lights but doesn't look strong enough for the seat / pedals etc.
    Send private email for more info. i don't want to express public opinion nor pics about others businesses i've no direct or indirect participation.
     
  6. peggy.spiers@yahoo.com

    Dec 16, 2015
    3
    Hi all,
    I am looking for a Master Brake Cylinder for a '73 Maserati Indy with Citroen brake system. I have a part # of DM453.89.7. This project has turned into a real booger simply because I can't find parts. Any help?
     
  7. AM1220552

    AM1220552 Karting

    May 25, 2012
    132
  8. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2012
    739
    New York and Norway
    Full Name:
    Art

    Bob,
    I've been aware of this, but never performed a "drill" on the operation. Can you elaborate any more? It's worth clarifying as much as possible. I'll scrutinize the 'Parts Manual' to identify the proper junction box you speak of. I assume this isolates the critical braking function. Does one screw the screw inwards to isolate the brake circuit?

    Thanks,
    - Art
     
  9. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 13, 2005
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    Bob
    Honestly Art? I don't remember.

    Maserati Bora - Brakingn system: Page 024 | Order Online Eurospares

    #40.

    If you're going to disturb it I'd be prepared to replace any seal involved. I never needed to use it under emergency conditions. I imagine there's a hard seat sealing surface and a rubber seal for the shaft?

    I'd ask Dave and see if he knows. I'll ask my fried who used to own one as well. If you're an MIE member they might know too. I think the shaft has a lock nut no?

    Let us know what you find out.
     
  10. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3

    Apr 22, 2006
    2,373
    Atlanta
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    The Car Nut
    #135 thecarnut, Nov 29, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This is what the cut off valve looks like on a Khamsin. On a Bora you will find a similar junction box with the cut off valve near the brake accumulators.

    You release the lock nut and then screw in the tiny bolt to shut off the flow to the accessories. The bolt looks very fragile and it appears it could easily snap.

    Ivan
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  11. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 13, 2005
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    Bob
    Ivan,

    Have you ever tried it?
     
  12. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3

    Apr 22, 2006
    2,373
    Atlanta
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    The Car Nut
    #137 thecarnut, Nov 29, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Yes, and it worked. Personally I would have designed this very differently as this design is useless in an emergency. A miniature ball valve would have been a better choice.

    Ivan
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  13. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Oh well on that topic the list is quite long ... LOL :D

    But the original tool kit should be able to work on that unless the bolt is frozen and then snaps off! :eek:

    Could you tell how the threads are sealed?
     
  14. eogorman

    eogorman Formula Junior

    May 10, 2005
    294
    Buhl, ID
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    Eugene O'Gorman
    I do not believe the threads are sealed. When I used mine it leaked a lot of fluid until the valve was closed or completely open against the stop.
     
  15. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Yeah Gene, last night will NOT SLEEPING I imagined it as having a threaded stem with a double faced bulb on the end that seals against two faces in side that bore either all the way open or closed.

    Bob S.
     
  16. richjar

    richjar Karting

    Oct 20, 2009
    247
    The comments on the cut off junction was interesting, I never knew what the junction box was for. I thought it could have been an adjusting screw or something. But when the systems are all working well and I have a friendly specialist, I leave well alone...
     
  17. highwaybora

    highwaybora Karting

    Jun 18, 2013
    117
    SoCal
    Functionally so. All in or out only, leaks everywhere between.. under pressure. In my experience. LOVE the idea of a Ball-valve... but all purists likely object. 2750 lb/sq.in. like Scuba. Why? CITROEN.

    As to all else in aux system, all dash-switches and slave piston-effectuators, does not MIE offer full solution?? For Bora, anyway. No indication if any variances between model years, serial #s, other. Maybe not cheap, but... all other solutions appear partial only, or with other major risks.

    I have aversion to shipping out of country, if possible to avoid.

    --NE
    ps--please advise if any misconceptions stated, if so need full objective detailed tested facts. Thx!!
     
  18. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks for confirming this. I never had such a failure to use it, at least that I can remember.

    I'm with you when it comes to shipping these bits half way around the world.

    Have you tried calling Dave Burnham?

    Dave Burnham Citroën - Contact Us
     
  19. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    533
    I wrote these comments almost exactly a year ago today...
    All remains well!

    Regards.
     
  20. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    533
    It makes sense to merge this thread with the Citroen Hydraulics one.

    Regards.
     
    paulchua likes this.
  21. highwaybora

    highwaybora Karting

    Jun 18, 2013
    117
    SoCal
    Yes, merge!!

    Thanks. Was NOT ignoring all your excellent prior info, particularly re Maurice.
    Wishing to do entire aux system, as you did, but when speaking to the delightful Maurice last summer, gained impression such full treatment out of question owing to out-of-stock items, etc.
    Awaiting new investment capital there, methinks.

    What re Dave Burnham Citroen? No joy re SLC former source, phone delisted.

    Any differences between my early '73 and later Bora models??
    What of all o-rings, tubing, sleeves, switches, etc?
    Removing and Replacing common issues, bungles, other??

    Warmest best regards, for happy Bora motoring WITH aux fully functional...

    Ned. 949.551.4770
     
  22. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Not sure what you're asking?
     
  23. highwaybora

    highwaybora Karting

    Jun 18, 2013
    117
    SoCal
    Bob--
    Sorry...
    That response intended for Borologist contributions prior.

    Re Dave Burnham, correspondence today tells that he can do braking system only, not cab aux switches, slaves, etc. Thanks for tip though!

    Now following other leads and will report.
    NE
     
  24. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 13, 2005
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    Bob
    Maybe he needs some encouragement?

    There was also a guy from Scandinavia, sorry I don't know the country, who posted on here about adapting some brand new units for headlamps I think? Maybe the pedals too?

    But the seating cylinder which is very visible might be an issue ...

    What have the guys with the Mercedes 600s been doing?
     
  25. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3

    Apr 22, 2006
    2,373
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    The Car Nut
    I received an e-mail from a Mercedes 600 parts rebuilder that is interested in servicing the Bosch hydraulic parts used on Maseratis. Apparently he has experience rebuilding the same (or very similar) parts for the MB 600 series cars.

    I have not used his services nor have a financial interest. If someone decides to try him out please report back your experience. This is his contact information:

    Martin Werminghausen
    Engineer
    141 South Great Road, Lincoln, MA 01773, USA
    857-265-6283
    600AirSuspension

    Ivan
     

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