Citroen SM V8

According to my memory this was already discussed here.
But you are wrong with the note that the German collector put it into an SM.
Dealer and collector H.P. had the engine in his private residence on display only.

Ciao!
Walter

 

I've also heard about this story of the german collector, but I can't find the article anymore. However, I've found this on the internet, the car was apparently shown at Retromobile in 2010:

http://www.citroenet.org.uk/phototheques/retromobile2010/retro-3.html

 

Yes just read my sign posted in front of the car at Retromobile 2010 , my article on the car in the French version of Classic & Sports car July Augst 2010 or the Octane UK article, February 2011....and my book when I finish it!

Finding out the facts about this car, which was a true Loch Ness monster of Citroën Maserati history for 35 years was very satisfying but I was lucky.

First: French and foreign Citroën historians always asked in Paris and never ever in 35 years thought of asking south of the Alps, in Modena....duh!

Secondly Paul Frère, 6 months before he passed away when I interviewed him (summer 2007) said did you know Ing. Giulio Alfieri had an SM with a V8?

So then all I had to do was to interview the old timers at Maserati, zeroing in on those who were in the know and I had the whole story, over 6000 words of interview for the chapter in my book.

At Retromobile this year one French SM expert and book author walked 10 meters from me but did not acknowledge me even though he very clearly saw me and recognized me: I guess my article hurt his little ego because he had missed the story in his own research...

Clearly he has the wrong approach it is not about ego or knowledge competition it is about sharing passion, even though I have done big research on numerous things in this case I was lucky and acknowledged I was in the French article yet this chap is still all egotistical about it...
never mind.


best regards,

MS
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That same text in a more readable format:


Citroën SM V8 timeline
Copyright Marc Sonnery 2009
-Spring 1974 request by Citroën to Maserati for a new prototype engine for the Maserati Quattroporte II. Decision to make one single development engine, designs, execution, all take place at the Maserati factory.
-Summer 1974, engine fitted at the Maserati factory in an otherwise standard Citroën SM, Rio red in colour, testing begins, about 12000kms of use including trip to Rome, testing at Modena Autodromo and Monza, use as a commuter car by Ingegnere Giulio Alfieri.
-1975 engine removed from SM. Engine is stored at Maserati factory with other prototype engines and former factory museum cars. That SM is dismantled and scrapped.
-Early 1998 purchase of engine along with Maserati collection by the Panini family, stored at their Hombre farm near Modena.
-Late 1998 engine sold to noted German Maserati collector Hermann Postert who did not open or start it, just displayed it inside his home on a stand.
-Summer 2009 bought by private enthusiast collector Philip Kantor.
-Winter 2009 engine fitted by renowned SM specialist Frederic Daunat into a colour correct Rio red Citroën SM by for the first time since 1975, 35 years after its first spell in one.
-2009 interviews of all remaining protagonists from the Maserati factory at the time.
-January 2010 exhibited at Retromobile in Paris to coincide with the celebrations for the 40th anniversary of the SM. This is the first ever public showing of this engine and also the first time it is fitted in an SM since 1975.
-Spring 2010 to be featured exclusively in the French version of classic & Sports Cars, alongside one classic motoring magazine in the UK as well as one in the US.
-Late 2011 featured extensively in book Maserati the Citroën years by Marc Sonnery to be published by Parker House Publishing (English) and Editions drivers (French).

 

Many thanks to you, Marc and to you, John for reviving the thread. I was totally unaware of this. Most wonderful! Always something new to learn. Great picture.

Ciao,
George

 

John: everything was made specifically for this engine, that was the whole point, not to use old components.

George: thanks!

best regards,

MS

 

Hello John, sorry for the delayed response, was on deadline.

That was never discussed however it is all Merak and the whole idea was to do something new so the answer is imagine a bespoke one, ie made from scratch like an extended Merak crankshaft, not an old existing one.
Again one of the main reasons Citroen bought Maserati was their ability to make protoype engines within weeks.

Maserati made an astounding number of prototype engines for many decades.

best regards,

Marc

 

It was indeed this article in the french version of Classic and Sports Car that I read and that I mentionned in my post. Well done and congratulations Marc for this research!!!

Can't wait to read your book...

 

Was there any particular advantage to this engine over the regular production V8?
Does anyone have figures for dimensions or weight?

A Merak without the two rear seats and the engine protruding into the passenger compartment?

Interesting idea. Too bad they never built anything like that ...

 

That is called a Bora

Attached a picture of the SM V8 engine bay that I took during last year's Le Mans Classic.

Bart

 

And now the promised picture
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-EM42: thank you! That was very satisfying, specially since so much has been rehashed about SM's without any new research so definitely a special memory.

-Bob: I can send you the PDF of the French article (yes yes I know you don't speak French, for the photos and tech data) I am pretty sure it has weight and size but don't have it here am not at home.

I forgot I did a one pager for Autoweek as well: google it, it comes up.

The engine produces between 260 and 280hp but there is no question of dynoing such a one off.

Comparing it to the traditional V8 is really not an issue, Malleret wanted something new for the QPII and it had to be done at reasonable cost so they did this.

It would have done really well. I drove Edwin Faulkner's QPII (the best one there is) for the book and was very impressed, all it needed was more power so that engine would have made it a brilliant proposition. The front wheel drive was fine for a sedan and the handling and comfort were verrry nice. Faulkner spent a fortune redoing the car as it had been in rather poor condition before.

best regards,

Marc

 

I could always google translate it so yes that might be interesting. Send it to me!

QPII ... Hard for me to get past that body design.

It's always very interesting to learn and see more of the goings on from back then Mark.
I wish I could have spent more time with Ing. Alfieri when I had the opportunities.

Bob S.

 

Looks a bit light on hoses and hardware ...

One thing I notice in that picture is on the center edge of the LH side. That looks like the identical vacuum canister as was used on my US 77 Bora. It was for that screwy anti pollution Bosch vacuum retard distributor. What's it's function on this car?

 

That's a question for Bart or one of you engineers, I am sure someone can answer that!

best regards,

Marc

 

Hello Bob and Marc,

Indeed the whole looks a bit like a plumbers nightmare at first instance, yet everything has its function and for a remake of a prototype certainly not bad.

Concerning the canister I can only guess, I have not talked to the guys that built it.
The distributor has a vacuum device too so I think it is to retard the ignition on the overrun by means of a micro switch when the throttle is closed. It avoids the popping in the exhaust during the overrun. Similar to Khamsins and Boras.

Regards,

Bart

 

Interesting that they decided to re-introduce this piece of "questionable" technology. It makes throttle response from the idle position less than stellar.

 

Bedankt Bart!

MS

 

This one functions at least. Take a look how L'altra marqua tried to solve this with a second set of contact breakers in the distributor and the micro switch under the pedal; driving many mecanics insane trying to understand it!

 

It was one of the first things to go on my Bora. Right after the air injection nuclear reactors! LOL