Claimed mileage - believable or not

While rollbacks happen, it’s believable that a 6-year car could have less than 8000 miles on it.

Example. Say the owner has other vehicles (which is the usual) and the Ferrari isn’t the daily driver but rather the weekend toy. So the owner might take it out on the weekends for a drive- 15-200 miles. But some weekends are shot because of family obligations, illness, business trips, weekend work, etc. Factor in winter, when snow’s on the ground or the roads are covered with corrosive salt, or the temperature (many live in the North) is so low that the tires are like rocks.

So figure, you have 52 weekends, 104 potential driving days that are whittled down to 40-60 by the above factors. Assuming 50 days and a moderate drive, it’s easy to see how it could happen. Particularly if the owner has other weekend toys and splits the driving between them.

I’m not saying that’s the best way to enjoy an F-car but I wouldn’t disbelieve a low mileage car out of hand, particularly if the service records were available and I could get a sense of how the owner lived- what other cars s/he had, etc.

 

(eating tacks for breakfast...)


I bet a huge number of odometers get disconnected in these cars. I can't open the door of my car without driving at least 75 miles.

What a friggen waste of a car. If people have so much money they can buy the car and afford to let it rot in the garage, they should send me a few bucks -- cause I'll spend the damn money on something useful. Whether you buy a <$20K GT4 or a >$200K 430, what's the point? It's a car. They depreciate in value. Period.

The only things that grow over time are fungi.

 

Add to this, the fact that low mileage TRs, 3X8s, had 4-5 previous owners. It is hard to believe that all of them purposely chose NOT to drive the car!!!!!!!!!

This supports the claim that the speedometers are disconnected......IMO.

I don't believe any mileage on the older cars...........I do believe in compression tests, and visual condition.

 

Just my experience...
I bought a 17 years old 328 with 12.000 miles on the clock. One previous owner. He just happened to have in his garage, among the others, 3 Bugatti, an Isotta Fraschini and other sport cars...
He simply was not using the 328 any more, having an employee who was just taking care of starting the cars regularly and doing maintenance. As a matter of fact, he claimed (supported by evidence) that the car had not been used properly during the last 5 years or so.
Perhaps I have just been lucky, but certainly you cannot compare the usage rate of these cars with daily drivers...
And now it is my turn...
After a slow start, I reached 20.000 miles last week end. In 3 weeks time I will move to the Philippines, leaving the car in long term storage. Should I sell the car in - say - 5 years time, it will be a 24 years old car with 20.000 miles.
Just to complete the picture. I have 2 motorcycles that have done less that 1000 miles in the last 4 years...
Ciao
Eugenio

 

Sad fact is, low mileage matters. When I was buying my testarossa I had 2 cars locally to chose from at a ferrari dealership.

1) 87, wht, 10k miles. Looked immaculate. No seat wear, paint blemishes, pedal wear, etc. LOOKED like 10k miles...ie. looked new. Some small issues (ie. tiny window delamination...sigh)

2) 88, red, 10k miles. Paint looked like it went through a sand blaster or hail damage. Buffed through in several spots, seat bolster worn through to foam. Pedals completely worn down...looked like 70k miles on this car...but it was red. When I brought this discrepancy up with the dealership, they agreed the car looked older than stated mileage...no further comments.

The red one was 10k$ more.

Other local dealerships (not ferrari) had 86-88's with 60k miles on them for 45k$...couldn't sell them. MILEAGE MATTERS. Its a subconcious disqualifier when shopping for these cars...

I too now believe that almost ALL OF THE CARS had the speedometers disconnected at some point...

 

I find it interesting to look at the TR,308/328 range which regularly show up with very very low miles and which, coincidentally, have odo's which are VERY easy to disconnect. Move to the newer stuff, and you see far fewer 355, 360, 550's with 'nearly new' mileage - these cars are either getting driven more (unlikely, all things considered) or are just showing it more.

 

not for nothing....but if you've driven a testarossa, you understand why they have low miles, and yes I can believe it......we had a customer with a 99 Corvette with 1200 miles on it, he just liked to look at it....believe me, these cars are 3rd, 4th, or even 5th cars for people.....

 

Actually, a search through the technical archives will reveal that the 80's odometers had a tendency to disconnect themselves!

 

When I bought my 328 in 2001, it was 13 years old and had 7K miles on it, roughly 530 miles/year of indicated use; had been through 2 previous owners. I agree, how can you own one of these cars and not drive it? Every time I go out in the car, it's 75-100 miles.
Even when presented with complete service histories from a dealer, indicating date/mileage, I remain a bit sceptical. Of course mileage made a difference in which car I chose to purchase, but as henryk says "I do believe in compression tests, and visual condition."

 

I searched and couldn't find any reference to this...

Out of curiosity, where else should one look to tell if the odometer was disconnected?

The obvious one: You can look where the odometer connects to the rear assembly - ie. does the connection look like pliers have been there in the past?

I was also told by another owner that some folks somehow jimmy-rigged the odometer with a switch under the dash that shut it off. Is this true? Do folks check for this?

 

Yes, I have heard of the 'under the dash switch' also, disabling the speedometer electrics; though I haven't come across one.

 

NEVER NEVER believe what you see on an older 3X8 and family. Search my posts on detailed explanations. I am NOT suggesting that a current owner is lying about it either. By now a car has swapped owners multiple times and the current one may not have a clue. Sending units go bad and get unplugged. I know they do. I know many that have been.

 

all these people that disconnect the speedo get less MPG imagine filling the car up 5 times and only clocking up 10 miles wow thats crap MPG

 

Odometers can be disconnected, but don't automatically discount the fact that this may be a true low mileage car. Certainly not the way I would keep mine, but anything is possible in Ferrari-Land.

 

I agree with the good Dr. Cosgrove. My car was a low mile car. The speedo read ~20,000 miles, and according to the mechanic that performed the PPI, the suspension, wear, etc. was indicative of a low mileage car.

After buying the car, one day, the trip odometer reset switch stopped working. I took out the speedo to repair it, and from what I saw, I was probably not the first person that had taken it out. My guess is that my car probably had maybe 30k miles instead of 20k miles (which would still be considered low mileage). It doesn't surprise me, and I have previously heard that all 3x8 cars have been tampered with at one time or another.

Dom

 

Let's face it a lower mileage, older car is suspect. It then becomes our job to verify the claim i.e. wear, records, number of owners, Carfax etc. I think it is safe to say that an older lower mileage car, is guilty till proven innocent. BTW, I understand even on the 360's it's quite easy to roll the speedo back, so the same applies with pretty much any used F-car where the mileage is ridiculously low or is not consistent with condition of the car.

 

Good posts on this thread....yes, some cars are misrepresented, but many also, ARE low mileage cars. The only way to know, is to see documentation (paperwork trail) and a careful inspection. I bought a 78 308 GTS with a true 15k miles. Full paperwork and inspection to back it up. But I have also seen cars with much more wear/tear and lack of documentation to validate the less than 10k miles they claim. Buyer beware! It is very easy to disconnect the speedo/odo on Ferraris, it is just that little pig tail connected off the transaxle......

I once saw a post on a board that stated from a former Ferrari tech that close to 30 or 40% of the cars that came through their dealership had the speedo disconnected by the owner....criminal!!

 

Yeah, its criminal....but I totally understand why folks do it:

1) A Ferrari's value is not a linear relationship to mileage. At 20k, most ferraris drop some in value, even more at 40k. When you cross 50k miles, seems like a cliff jump is looming. At 60k miles, you best be buried in it.

2) Most Ferrari dealers won't list/sell a car with over 20k miles. I have been told this repeatedly...

3) Gee, a 15k mile service costs how much? If you never hit that magic mark...you save quite a bit.

4) Lots of folks buy ferraris for the look. This is the same group that buys art, scuptures/etc. When you make enough money, you want nice things. No one wants a thrashed Picasso or a worn through Monet - at least not near full value. Having a low mileage Ferrari adds to pride of ownership...

I'm not condoning disconnecting the speedo/odometer...but I would bet its WAY MORE THAN 50% of folks that do. I looked at a lot of cars, and either Ferraris wear extremely quickly, or there is a lot of 70-100k mile examples showing 30k miles or less. I think this is more the rule, than the exception.

Quite frankly, this likely explains the "lack of durability" in these cars. Everyone thinks that there 30k mile car is wearing out to fast/ etc...nope....its just that it really has 70k miles...

I would love to hear some dealers chime in. Martin, where are you? Others?

 

Check this out... http://www.ferrariofatlanta.com/cgi-bin/listings.pl?displaykey&225

Yowzas! I'm sure they'll take less than ask, but given that the mileage is *double* that at which "you'd best be buried in it", the starting price seems a bit far-fetched. I guess in there's always a sucker, though.

 

Now thats a crazy price for the mileage!!! You can get a car with 1/4 the mileage for the same price. Tops is 15k$...

 

I know of at least one F car (no... not mine) that has a very loose connector to the sender unit that keeps the mileage down. The reason? Insurance costs are based on mileage travelled.... a no brainer really.... The car in question is one that the owner would never want to sell, so depreciation isn't an issue.

 

I too suspect that a lot of Ferraris have had their speedometers disconnected. But, the fact is they are Italian cars and they wear out much quicker than cars from Germany, Japan and the USA.

 

Has there ever been a case of someone getting nailed for this?

By the insurer?
Someone with buyers remorse?
By the feds?
By a dealer?

I suspect, no.

The only one with a chance in hell of confronting someone who has done this is a dealer - and they have every invcentive not too...

I am sure they change tires/brakes/clutches on lots of cars every 2000 miles .